[Ben Holmes]

I asked for the following statement to be analyzed by believers:

Quote:"The [autopsy] photographer was there, the corpsman who usually took pictures of damaged hearts and cirrhotic livers and other diseases. He was snapping away when he caught the attention of an FBI agent, who came up to him and asked for his clearance. 'Clearance?' said the corpsman. 'This is my job.' The agent took away his camera, exposed all the film, and threw him out. (The exposed film is in the archive.) 'We've got our own man taking pictures,' the FBI agent said. The FBI photographer, who had clearance, was in the same quandary as Humes. He had never taken autopsy pictures before and was untrained in photographing gunshot wounds. The photographs of the body's interior were out of focus ... Before the President was buried, no one, either in Dallas or Washington, looked at both sides of the body, front and back, and realized that a bullet had entered the back and exited the throat ... ." - Michael Baden "Unnatural Death - Confessions of a Medical Examiner", pg. 10-11

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Dale refused to answer, Patrick refused to answer, only Henry managed enough courage to post a response.
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The cowardice exhibited by believers in this forum (Amazon Forum) is incredible... they are CONSTANTLY running ... every single one of them ... even Henry, who did, to his credit, offer his analysis. So now it's time to show just how cowardly and dishonest believers are:

Henry Sienzant Wrote:Sure. Baden wasn't there, so he is repeating hearsay for the most part. Who was there who said all this and why don't you quote some actual testimony instead of hearsay? let's go through that statement sentence by sentence and see how much Baden can actually confirm by claiming he witnessed it.

This, of course, is very poor analysis indeed... Henry is presuming that Dr. Baden is being used as evidence... but refuses to LOOK AT WHAT IS BEING SAID.

Or, more accurately, Henry KNOWS that what Dr. Baden is saying is garbage, but is unwilling to correct Dr. Baden - who is a fellow believer.

Nor was Henry ever concerned with the use of Dr. Baden as an expert. Here's a few examples from Dale:

Quote:"Read especially Dr. Baden's quote - it annihilates Ben's entire set of beliefs."

"Dr. Baden exposes your little charade, doesn't he?"

"Dr. Baden stated it best: the Parkland doctors were WRONG"

Now, Henry was no-where to be found when Dale was citing Dr. Baden to counter what the Parkland doctors stated - and Henry had nothing to say about "hearsay" being used to counter first-hand knowledge.

HENRY HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO SAY WHEN DR. BADEN WAS BEING USED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS TO COUNTER ACTUAL EYEWITNESSES!

But NOW - when actually quoting Dr. Baden - it's suddenly hearsay.

Perhaps because he knows quite well just how wrong Dr. Baden is on these statements - and since Dr. Baden is a believer - doesn't wish to denigrate him.
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:The [autopsy] photographer was there, the corpsman who usually took pictures of damaged hearts and cirrhotic livers and other diseases.

Hearsay.

No Henry... it's not "hearsay" - it's flat WRONG. The photographer was John Stringer, who as Dr. Humes pointed out "The medical school's director of photography was a civilian, John Stringer." - not a corpsman.

Nor was the implication that the photographer hadn't ever photographed an autopsy before correct... as Dr. Humes pointed out, Stringer was "one of the best medical photographers in the world."

So here's two errors OF FACT that Dr. Baden is guilty of... yet you refer only to this as "hearsay".
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:He was snapping away when he caught the attention of an FBI agent, who came up to him and asked for his clearance.

Hearsay.

No Henry... again, IT IS FLAT WRONG. Those familiar with the evidence know that the Secret Service stopped Stringer's assistant, Floyd Reibe, not the FBI.

Once again, you know that the statement is false, yet you hide that fact behind a charge of "hearsay".
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:'Clearance?' said the corpsman. 'This is my job.' The agent took away his camera, exposed all the film, and threw him out. (The exposed film is in the archive.)

Hearsay.

Again, it wasn't the FBI... it was the Secret Service. It's not "hearsay" - it's WRONG.

Ironically, we see here one of the few accuracies that Dr. Baden is guilty of - the exposing of film.

 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:'We've got our own man taking pictures,' the FBI agent said.

Hearsay.

No Henry... once again, it's WRONG. There was no FBI photographer there, and you should certainly know that historical fact.

That you try to camouflage Dr. Baden's incorrect statements as "hearsay" without stating that he was WRONG shows your bias against the truth.
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:The FBI photographer, who had clearance, was in the same quandary as Humes.

Hearsay.

There was no FBI photographer. Dr. Baden was flat wrong. If a critic were to write a book, and have half the false statements we see here - you'd go ballistic. But since it's a Warren Commission defender making these false statements - you refuse to correct him.
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:He had never taken autopsy pictures before and was untrained in photographing gunshot wounds.

Hearsay.

No Henry - it's a COMPLETE INVENTION. There was no "FBI Photographer" - and the photographer who WAS there was "one of the best medical photographers in the world" - who certainly knew his job.
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:The photographs of the body's interior were out of focus ...

Did Baden examine the photos of the interior of JFK's body? I believe so. If so, then, as an expert witness, he can attest to this. Did he attest to this at any point in testimony? Authors are sometimes unreliable in what they put into their books --- and might inflate any given story to change its importance. Books are hearsay, as are newspaper articles and rumors. But let's grant this is accurate for the sake of argument.

ROFLMAO!!!

The one point on which you grant Dr. Baden expert status is the one where he is most OBVIOUSLY lying.

On all the other points, the passage of time could have made his recollections fuzzy, he can seem to recall someone taking away someones camera, and confusing the Secret Service with the FBI for that incident... but Dr. Baden NEVER SAW any interior photos, in OR out of focus... NONE EXIST.

And Henry KNOWS THIS FOR A FACT!

Anyone can view the inventory of photos from 11/10/66 for themselves:

It's quite clear that there's no interior body shots. There's testimony that they were taken, such as Stringer's testimony.

Henry also knows that Dr. Humes testified that at least one interior body photo was taken that isn't found in the collection.

But this information has long been known... Ramsey Clark told LBJ back in 1967.

So Henry knows quite well that no interior body photos exist in the record - YET THIS IS THE ONE ISSUE ON WHICH HE'S WILLING TO GRANT DR. BADEN ACCURACY ON.

Which means that either Henry is ignorant - which, as this is a longstanding issue known since 1966-67 time-frame seems incredible, or Henry is intentionally lying.

Tell us Henry, can you cite ANYTHING for your claim that Dr. Baden was telling the truth about seeing interior body photos of JFK?

(Despite Henry's claim to be able to cite for *HIS* claims, I don't expect a citation... Henry will run!)

[And indeed, Henry ran from this, and refused to answer...]
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:

Dr. Baden Wrote:"Before the President was buried, no one, either in Dallas or Washington, looked at both sides of the body, front and back, and realized that a bullet had entered the back and exited the throat ... ." - Michael Baden "Unnatural Death - Confessions of a Medical Examiner", pg. 10-11

Again, hearsay. He wasn't at Parkland in Dallas nor at Bethesda in Washington.

Of course, you know that this is a completely ACCURATE statement. Perhaps, other than his statement that film had been exposed, the only statement that Dr. Baden makes that is truthful to history.
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:So here's the evidence that Baden (at best) can personally testify to: "The photographs of the body's interior were out of focus ..." The rest of it is just hearsay and wouldn't be allowed in a trial."

The one point that you allow as truthful is the one point that YOU KNOW IS A LIE ON DR. BADEN'S PART. Everything else Dr. Baden said could be simply mixed up memories... After all, this was written many years later... but you can't 'remember' something that never happened at all - there is ZERO EVIDENCE of any interior body photographs, and quite obvious and credible evidence that they don't exist.

So where did Dr. Baden come up with the "out of focus" idea? HE NEVER SAW ANY SUCH PHOTOGRAPHS... they don't exist.

You can't cite for them. Nor can you pretend that they exist, but are simply still classified, BECAUSE THE INVENTORY LISTS NO SUCH PHOTOGRAPHS.
 

Henry Sienzant Wrote:So what's your point, exactly,

With your help, I just made it.

Dale was afraid (or too ignorant) to answer... Patrick refused to answer... and YOU REFUSED TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS UNTRUTH OF MOST OF THESE STATEMENTS.

THAT was my point, and you helped me make it. I knew IN ADVANCE that no-one would dare state the obvious - that Dr. Baden was clearly wrong on so many points in just a short paragraph. The point is that believers refuse to correct other believers even when it's so BLAZINGLY obvious...

For example, no-one will step up to the plate and point out to you that there were MANY Grassy Knoll witnesses that you claim ignorance of... no-one.

And this is the point.

Honest people don't act this way.

Quite surprisingly, you publicly accepted as truthful the one statement that has contrary evidence going back to 1966-67.

Now, I'd defy you to produce ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL that there are interior body photographs taken of JFK during the autopsy that still exist somewhere - but I know that would be a meaningless challenge... you can't produce any evidence, and you know it.

For some strange reason, you thought that a lie about internal body photos would pass muster.

Now Henry, you stated: "And we're still waiting for your response. We don't expect an answer anytime soon. If ever." - and I told you I'd be expecting your apology for that obviously incorrect statement.

Not that I really EXPECT one... you're notoriously dishonest... but you and Dale owe me one... because you *KNEW* that I'd answer... and lied.

It's really more of a telling point that you could think that I wouldn't respond to a thread I've started. Because you clearly aren't so dumb as to actually BELIEVE I wouldn't respond. So you were simply lying when you claimed that you weren't expecting this answer.

Now, would you like to offer any citations for your pretended belief that interior body photos exist of JFK's autopsy?

Or explain why you were so unwilling to point out what YOU MUST HAVE KNOWN were incorrect statements on Dr. Baden's part?

[Ben Holmes]

Patrick continues his silence on the issue of Michael Baden's ignorance or forgetfulness...

Must be absolutely mind numbingly horrible that you don't have anything to say...

You can't admit the truth - that Michael Baden was flat wrong, and you can't lie convincingly enough to not get tagged by me for it...