[Ben Holmes]

Anonymous WCR Defender Wrote:Nobody has ever disputed that at times SS agents rode the bumper of the Presidential limo or were close behind. There are also pictures taken elsewhere when they weren't close behind and as DVP's picture shows the Queen Mary was sometimes farther back than it was in Dallas. Those decisions were made on a case by case basis. Some of the pictures you posted show agents close by earlier in the motorcade route. They got close when the crowds got close. There was no SS stand down in Dallas. JFK got the same level of protection that he hard received in numerous other places both home and abroad. 

So the question remains - how did they manage to give the same level of protection when they left agents at the airport instead of their assigned spots?

[Lee Abbott]

If a few of the SS were involved, they weren't informed of it on November 21st or just a week or 2 before then. SO NATURALLY there would be photos ... aka evidence of loose protection prior to the assassination so as not to make it appear anything was out-of-the-ordinary that day!

Sheech!

[Patrick C]

(09-28-2016, 09:07 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

Anonymous WCR Defender Wrote:Nobody has ever disputed that at times SS agents rode the bumper of the Presidential limo or were close behind. There are also pictures taken elsewhere when they weren't close behind and as DVP's picture shows the Queen Mary was sometimes farther back than it was in Dallas. Those decisions were made on a case by case basis. Some of the pictures you posted show agents close by earlier in the motorcade route. They got close when the crowds got close. There was no SS stand down in Dallas. JFK got the same level of protection that he hard received in numerous other places both home and abroad. 

So the question remains - how did they manage to give the same level of protection when they left agents at the airport instead of their assigned spots?

The two agents who stood down at Love Field were scheduled to do so and prepare Air Force One at the end of their shift.

There is NOTHING conspiratorial about that and teh same level of protection WAS provided in Dallas. The exact positions of the agents and outriders is a dynamic fluid situation and their positions will move over the parade EVERY time there is one. 


[Ad hominem deleted]

[Ben Holmes]

(09-29-2016, 11:49 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  

(09-28-2016, 09:07 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

Anonymous WCR Defender Wrote:Nobody has ever disputed that at times SS agents rode the bumper of the Presidential limo or were close behind. There are also pictures taken elsewhere when they weren't close behind and as DVP's picture shows the Queen Mary was sometimes farther back than it was in Dallas. Those decisions were made on a case by case basis. Some of the pictures you posted show agents close by earlier in the motorcade route. They got close when the crowds got close. There was no SS stand down in Dallas. JFK got the same level of protection that he hard received in numerous other places both home and abroad. 

So the question remains - how did they manage to give the same level of protection when they left agents at the airport instead of their assigned spots?

The two agents who stood down at Love Field were scheduled to do so and prepare Air Force One at the end of their shift.

There is NOTHING conspiratorial about that and teh same level of protection WAS provided in Dallas. The exact positions of the agents and outriders is a dynamic fluid situation and their positions will move over the parade EVERY time there is one. 


[Ad hominem deleted]

The Secret Service shift assignments sheet for 11/22/63 list Rybka & Lawton as the two agents assigned to the rear of the Presidential limo.

So the question remains... how could they have supplied the same level of protection when they were short two agents in critical positions?

[Patrick C]

(09-29-2016, 11:49 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  

(09-28-2016, 09:07 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

Anonymous WCR Defender Wrote:Nobody has ever disputed that at times SS agents rode the bumper of the Presidential limo or were close behind. There are also pictures taken elsewhere when they weren't close behind and as DVP's picture shows the Queen Mary was sometimes farther back than it was in Dallas. Those decisions were made on a case by case basis. Some of the pictures you posted show agents close by earlier in the motorcade route. They got close when the crowds got close. There was no SS stand down in Dallas. JFK got the same level of protection that he hard received in numerous other places both home and abroad. 

So the question remains - how did they manage to give the same level of protection when they left agents at the airport instead of their assigned spots?

The two agents who stood down at Love Field were scheduled to do so and prepare Air Force One at the end of their shift.

There is NOTHING conspiratorial about that and teh same level of protection WAS provided in Dallas. The exact positions of the agents and outriders is a dynamic fluid situation and their positions will move over the parade EVERY time there is one. 


[Ad hominem deleted]

Lee,

Perhaps you would like to confirm whether or not you agree with my statement about the level of protection or would that conflict with your hyped up view that the SS were deficient in Dallas up to the first shot....?

[Ben Holmes]

(09-29-2016, 05:43 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  Lee,

Perhaps you would like to confirm whether or not you agree with my statement about the level of protection or would that conflict with your hyped up view that the SS were deficient in Dallas up to the first shot....?

Dead silence... here it is again:

The Secret Service shift assignments sheet for 11/22/63 list Rybka & Lawton as the two agents assigned to the rear of the Presidential limo.

So the question remains... how could they have supplied the same level of protection when they were short two agents in critical positions?

[Patrick C]

Ref Rybka & Lawton, Kellerman or higher up changed the plan - happens all the time. Can I be bothered to research it - nope.

But as I stated earlier - the idea that individuals in the US SS were part of a plot to kill JFK...beggars belief.

[Ben Holmes]

(09-29-2016, 07:31 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  Ref Rybka & Lawton, Kellerman or higher up changed the plan - happens all the time. Can I be bothered to research it - nope.

But as I stated earlier - the idea that individuals in the US SS were part of a plot to kill JFK...beggars belief.

All you've done is illustrate that you don't have the facts to support your claims, and second, that you don't know history.

Aurelian
Balvinus
Balbinus
Caligula
Caracalla
Commodus
Elagabalus
Galba
Gordian III
Numerian
Pertinax
Marcus Aurelius Probus
Pupienus

And this is just the Roman leaders who were killed by their own guard. I can, with just a tad more research, bring the list up to date... but it would be silly.

Anyone with any brains will understand that those who are closest to you have the greatest opportunity to kill you.

Your faith that Americans wouldn't do such a thing is touching, but misplaced.

I note for the record that you're still lying about Dr. Baden...

And about the scenario I've outlined for the conspiracy... 

And about how many people heard shots coming from the Grassy Knoll...

And doubtless other lies I've forgotten by now...

[Ben Holmes]

(09-29-2016, 09:11 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(09-29-2016, 07:31 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  Ref Rybka & Lawton, Kellerman or higher up changed the plan - happens all the time. Can I be bothered to research it - nope.

But as I stated earlier - the idea that individuals in the US SS were part of a plot to kill JFK...beggars belief.

All you've done is illustrate that you don't have the facts to support your claims, and second, that you don't know history.

Aurelian
Balvinus
Balbinus
Caligula
Caracalla
Commodus
Elagabalus
Galba
Gordian III
Numerian
Pertinax
Marcus Aurelius Probus
Pupienus

And this is just the Roman leaders who were killed by their own guard. I can, with just a tad more research, bring the list up to date... but it would be silly.

Anyone with any brains will understand that those who are closest to you have the greatest opportunity to kill you.

Your faith that Americans wouldn't do such a thing is touching, but misplaced.

I note for the record that you're still lying about Dr. Baden...

And about the scenario I've outlined for the conspiracy... 

And about how many people heard shots coming from the Grassy Knoll...

And doubtless other lies I've forgotten by now...

A demonstration of the power of my point made above - is that Patrick has twice been unable to answer it without personal ad hominem attacks.

It's merely historical fact that many leaders down through the ages have been killed by their own security services. In JFK's case, it was merely with the assistance of the Secret Service, and not by them personally - this is what the evidence shows.

But Patrick cannot address that evidence, and has sunk to denying historical reality.

And while it's good that he has such a high opinion of American Secret Service agents, isn't simply not very realistic to place them on a pedestal that the evidence shows they don't reside on.

[Patrick C]

Ben Holmes Wrote:All you've done is illustrate that you don't have the facts to support your claims, and second, that you don't know history.

Complete tripe. I studied history at one of the finest universities in the world under one of the most famous historians of the 20th century Sir Hugh Trevor Roper. You know NOTHING about what I know about history Holmes, but I'll wager it is rather a lot more than you.

Ben Holmes Wrote:But Patrick cannot address that evidence, and has sunk to denying historical reality.

Again complete nonsense. I am NOT denying that leaders have been assassinated by their protectors and double crossed over the ages - why would I deny that....? What a ridiculous thing to say.

You are seemingly  incapable of intelligent debate and this is reflected in your hopelessly inacurate and frankly inarticulate assertions toward some one who you know very little about.