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+--- Thread: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald (/Thread-NRA-Rated-Masters-vs-Lee-Harvey-Oswald)
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Re: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald - Ben Holmes - 06-13-2016
Patrick C Wrote:Ben Holmes Wrote:the WC test still couldn't get the job done.
I don't agree, they demonstrated a shooter could get off two shots in 5 to 6 seconds which is almost certainly what happened. Be that with a missed shot and a total of 8.5 seconds approx for 3 shots.
I fail to see how anyone can argue against that.
I accept the 3 shots in 5.2 seconds is really pushing it, but even that is still possible.
The fact that believers invariably cite the CBS test, and stay far away from the Warren Commission test, demonstrates the accuracy of my statement that "the WC test still couldn't get the job done (despite their many advantages)"
If the Warren Commission test had been successful - believers would be citing it.
But they invariably cite the CBS test instead.
The truth tells the tale, doesn't it?
Re: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald - Patrick C - 06-13-2016
"the WC test still couldn't get the job done."
I don't agree, the demonstrated a shooter could get off two shots in 5 to 6 seconds which is almost certainly what happened. Be that with a missed shot and a total of 8.5 seconds approx for 3 shots.
I fail to see how anyone can argue against that.
I accept the 3 shots in 5.2 seconds is really pushing it, but even that is still possible.
Re: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald - Patrick C - 06-14-2016
Ben Holmes Wrote:... they still couldn't hit the head or neck of the target - NOT ONE SINGLE TIME - using the scope as the Warren Commission claimed the assassin had used.
Believers cannot explain these facts - nor will they try...
Up and to the right.....exactly what was the "lead" on the target given the motion of the car in Dealey Plaza......? About the same......?
Anyway, I just cannot agree with your logic on the WC tests. You do not know if the scope was knocked slightly or if the scope was used at all........
All you need do is show that the rifle could be fired twice in 5 to 6 seconds and that a target could be struck at least once and you show the assassination was achievable. It is that simple.
You do not need to duplicate / replicate the exact same scenario as Dallas.
If the tests had shown it was impossible to fire 2 shots in 5.2 seconds fine....but they did not. You could fire twice and aim using the scope every 2.3 seconds.......so timing wise there is NO issue. Oswald had a full 5 seconds for the head shot almost certainly.
Re: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald - Ben Holmes - 06-14-2016
Patrick C Wrote:Ben Holmes Wrote:... they still couldn't hit the head or neck of the target - NOT ONE SINGLE TIME - using the scope as the Warren Commission claimed the assassin had used.
Believers cannot explain these facts - nor will they try...
Up and to the right.....exactly what was the "lead" on the target given the motion of the car in Dealey Plaza......? About the same......?
Sorry Patrick, the targets used by the Warren Commission test were stationary. Far easier than a moving target. Why can't you deal with the topic? Why the attempt to move it into something with no bearing on this test?
Patrick C Wrote:Anyway, I just cannot agree with your logic on the WC tests. You do not know if the scope was knocked slightly or if the scope was used at all........
The Warren Commission asserted that the scope was used. They assured us that it was an advantage to fast and accurate shooting.
Unless you're willing to call the Warren Commission liars, you'll have to stick with the official story.
That includes THREE shots... and the use of the scope.
Patrick C Wrote:All you need do is show that the rifle could be fired twice in 5 to 6 seconds and that a target could be struck at least once and you show the assassination was achievable. It is that simple.
And continues to fail to explain the fact that the Warren Commission test failed... or why believers always cite the CBS test.
Indeed, you're getting dangerously close to a charge of cowardice...
Why is the CBS test invariably cited instead of the Warren Commission test?
And why did the Warren Commission test do so poorly in comparison to the CBS test - despite the many advantages held by the Warren Commission shooters?
Patrick C Wrote:You do not need to duplicate / replicate the exact same scenario as Dallas.
Strawman.
No-one has made that claim.
No-one.
Patrick C Wrote:If the tests had shown it was impossible to fire 2 shots in 5.2 seconds fine....but they did not. You could fire twice and aim using the scope every 2.3 seconds.......so timing wise there is NO issue. Oswald had a full 5 seconds for the head shot almost certainly.
Which of those scoped two shots struck the head or neck of JFK?
Re: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald - Patrick C - 06-14-2016
What kind of a question is than Ben....are you up to your old tricks of speaking in riddles...?
Number 2 of the shots that struck....
Speaking to experienced shooters my impression is that Oswald would have used the iron sights when he, as the lone assassin, shot JFK.
Re: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald - Ben Holmes - 06-14-2016
Patrick C Wrote:Ben Holmes Wrote:the WC test still couldn't get the job done.
I don't agree, they demonstrated a shooter could get off two shots in 5 to 6 seconds which is almost certainly what happened. Be that with a missed shot and a total of 8.5 seconds approx for 3 shots.
I fail to see how anyone can argue against that.
I accept the 3 shots in 5.2 seconds is really pushing it, but even that is still possible.
The timing isn't the issue... the FACT is that the shooters couldn't hit the head or neck...
I note for the record that you continue to refuse to provide the essentials of a real test...
Or to offer an explanation why believers invariably cite the CBS test instead of the Warren Commission test.
Your silence speaks volumes.
Re: NRA Rated 'Masters' vs Lee Harvey Oswald - Ben Holmes - 06-14-2016
Patrick C Wrote:Speaking to experienced shooters my impression is that Oswald would have used the iron sights when he, as the lone assassin, shot JFK.
The Warren Commission asserted otherwise.
Why are you contradicting the Warren Commission?