Dale Myers Wrote:One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons. However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.

(03-31-2017, 03:13 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .38.

This is simply another way of saying: "We couldn't honestly state that we found any matches". This is one of the biggest stretches the Warren Commission made - they knew they had a fairly weak case against Oswald, so by framing him with the Tippit killing, they believed that they could influence people to believe the killings were somehow related.

But it really makes no sense at all.

The Warren Commission even went to the trouble of 'expert witness shopping' - since their FBI ballistic experts declined to match any Tippit bullets to the alleged Oswald pistol. They found Joseph Nicol willing to match one of the bullets... however, as Dale Myers (no friend of critics) has written:
 

Dale Myers Wrote:One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons. However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.

You won't find Vincent Bugliosi telling you this...

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:13 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .38.

This is simply another way of saying: "We couldn't honestly state that we found any matches". This is one of the biggest stretches the Warren Commission made - they knew they had a fairly weak case against Oswald, so by framing him with the Tippit killing, they believed that they could influence people to believe the killings were somehow related.

But it really makes no sense at all.

The Warren Commission even went to the trouble of 'expert witness shopping' - since their FBI ballistic experts declined to match any Tippit bullets to the alleged Oswald pistol. They found Joseph Nicol willing to match one of the bullets... however, as Dale Myers (no friend of critics) has written:
 

Dale Myers Wrote:One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons. However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.

You won't find Vincent Bugliosi telling you this...

Notice the ommission Ben is guilty of:  The difficulty in matching the bullets to Oswald's revolver arose from the barrel being rechambered before being sold and the revolver was not REBARELLED to handle a .38 bullet from the cartridge. Since a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Special bullet has a slightly smaller diameter than a regular .38 S&W bullet, the bullets were slightly undersized for the barrel, causing an erratic passage down the barrel, thereby causing "inconsistent individual characteristic marks to be impressed or scratched on to the surface of the bullets" Each time it was fired, the bullet would pass down the barrel in a different way.

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Not mentioned by Mr Holmes was the cartridge cases being positively identified as coming from the revolver Oswald was arrested with. The FBI expert found IDENTICAL breech face and firing pin marks on the head of the cases, concluding that the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Multiple witnesess saw Oswald emptying these shells near some bushes or running from the scene.

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Isn't it fascinating how conspiracy theorists cherry pick what they state and conveniently leave out these little tidbits of information? - they learned from the master prevaricator himself, Mark Lane.

(03-31-2017, 10:07 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:13 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .38.

This is simply another way of saying: "We couldn't honestly state that we found any matches". This is one of the biggest stretches the Warren Commission made - they knew they had a fairly weak case against Oswald, so by framing him with the Tippit killing, they believed that they could influence people to believe the killings were somehow related.

But it really makes no sense at all.

The Warren Commission even went to the trouble of 'expert witness shopping' - since their FBI ballistic experts declined to match any Tippit bullets to the alleged Oswald pistol. They found Joseph Nicol willing to match one of the bullets... however, as Dale Myers (no friend of critics) has written:
 

Dale Myers Wrote:One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons. However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.

You won't find Vincent Bugliosi telling you this...

Notice the ommission Ben is guilty of:  The difficulty in matching the bullets to Oswald's revolver arose from the barrel being rechambered before being sold and the revolver was not REBARELLED to handle a .38 bullet from the cartridge. Since a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Special bullet has a slightly smaller diameter than a regular .38 S&W bullet, the bullets were slightly undersized for the barrel, causing an erratic passage down the barrel, thereby causing "inconsistent individual characteristic marks to be impressed or scratched on to the surface of the bullets" Each time it was fired, the bullet would pass down the barrel in a different way.

This is meaningless.

It's an explanation why they COULDN'T match the bullets... but this means that the bullets wouldn't match to my pistol either. Or John's pistol down the street... or my Uncle Ralph's pistol... or...

I can go on and on...

Explaining why bullets don't match ONE pistol has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it could be matched to another pistol.

The issue is THAT THE BULLETS DIDN'T MATCH - you cannot use that fact to be evidence supporting your theory that Oswald shot Tippit.

Yet Bugliosi did. And that's simply wrong.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Not mentioned by Mr Holmes was the cartridge cases being positively identified as coming from the revolver Oswald was arrested with. The FBI expert found IDENTICAL breech face and firing pin marks on the head of the cases, concluding that the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.

I'm quite sure that the current shells at NARA came from the pistol.

I quite doubt that the ORIGINAL shells did. The original shells were automatic, as described on scene.

This explains why chain of custody is so important in American justice - and these shells had a broken chain of custody.

 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Multiple witnesess saw Oswald emptying these shells near some bushes or running from the scene.

You are, of course, merely claiming what you need to prove.

You merely assume that it was Oswald, therefore it must have been Oswald.

Then you simply run away from the ACTUAL facts & evidence that contradict your faith.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Isn't it fascinating how conspiracy theorists cherry pick what they state and conveniently leave out these little tidbits of information? - they learned from the master prevaricator himself, Mark Lane.

Interestingly, each time Mark Lane comes up - believers make completely unsubstantiated claims.

You've labeled him a liar... now, can you quote (along with a cite to the page number ) from "Rush To Judgment" one of these alleged lies ... then cite the relevant evidence that shows it to be a lie?

My prediction (based on extensive past history) - you'll refuse to do so.

And THAT fact tells the true story...

(03-31-2017, 10:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 10:07 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:13 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .38.

This is simply another way of saying: "We couldn't honestly state that we found any matches". This is one of the biggest stretches the Warren Commission made - they knew they had a fairly weak case against Oswald, so by framing him with the Tippit killing, they believed that they could influence people to believe the killings were somehow related.

But it really makes no sense at all.

The Warren Commission even went to the trouble of 'expert witness shopping' - since their FBI ballistic experts declined to match any Tippit bullets to the alleged Oswald pistol. They found Joseph Nicol willing to match one of the bullets... however, as Dale Myers (no friend of critics) has written:
 

Dale Myers Wrote:One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons. However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.

You won't find Vincent Bugliosi telling you this...

Notice the ommission Ben is guilty of:  The difficulty in matching the bullets to Oswald's revolver arose from the barrel being rechambered before being sold and the revolver was not REBARELLED to handle a .38 bullet from the cartridge. Since a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Special bullet has a slightly smaller diameter than a regular .38 S&W bullet, the bullets were slightly undersized for the barrel, causing an erratic passage down the barrel, thereby causing "inconsistent individual characteristic marks to be impressed or scratched on to the surface of the bullets" Each time it was fired, the bullet would pass down the barrel in a different way.

This is meaningless.

It's an explanation why they COULDN'T match the bullets... but this means that the bullets wouldn't match to my pistol either. Or John's pistol down the street... or my Uncle Ralph's pistol... or...

I can go on and on...

Explaining why bullets don't match ONE pistol has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it could be matched to another pistol.

The issue is THAT THE BULLETS DIDN'T MATCH - you cannot use that fact to be evidence supporting your theory that Oswald shot Tippit.

Yet Bugliosi did. And that's simply wrong.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Not mentioned by Mr Holmes was the cartridge cases being positively identified as coming from the revolver Oswald was arrested with. The FBI expert found IDENTICAL breech face and firing pin marks on the head of the cases, concluding that the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.

I'm quite sure that the current shells at NARA came from the pistol.

I quite doubt that the ORIGINAL shells did. The original shells were automatic, as described on scene.

This explains why chain of custody is so important in American justice - and these shells had a broken chain of custody.

 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Multiple witnesess saw Oswald emptying these shells near some bushes or running from the scene.

You are, of course, merely claiming what you need to prove.

You merely assume that it was Oswald, therefore it must have been Oswald.

Then you simply run away from the ACTUAL facts & evidence that contradict your faith.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Isn't it fascinating how conspiracy theorists cherry pick what they state and conveniently leave out these little tidbits of information? - they learned from the master prevaricator himself, Mark Lane.

Interestingly, each time Mark Lane comes up - believers make completely unsubstantiated claims.

You've labeled him a liar... now, can you quote (along with a cite to the page number ) from "Rush To Judgment" one of these alleged lies ... then cite the relevant evidence that shows it to be a lie?

My prediction (based on extensive past history) - you'll refuse to do so.

And THAT fact tells the true story...

Notice no denial that the empty hulls were unquestionably traced to Oswald's revolver by the FBI expert - just some insinuation that the shells were not legitimate or not the original shells collected - impressive, isn't it? 
[Ad Hominem removed]

(03-31-2017, 10:50 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 10:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 10:07 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:13 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .38.

This is simply another way of saying: "We couldn't honestly state that we found any matches". This is one of the biggest stretches the Warren Commission made - they knew they had a fairly weak case against Oswald, so by framing him with the Tippit killing, they believed that they could influence people to believe the killings were somehow related.

But it really makes no sense at all.

The Warren Commission even went to the trouble of 'expert witness shopping' - since their FBI ballistic experts declined to match any Tippit bullets to the alleged Oswald pistol. They found Joseph Nicol willing to match one of the bullets... however, as Dale Myers (no friend of critics) has written:
 


You won't find Vincent Bugliosi telling you this...

Notice the ommission Ben is guilty of:  The difficulty in matching the bullets to Oswald's revolver arose from the barrel being rechambered before being sold and the revolver was not REBARELLED to handle a .38 bullet from the cartridge. Since a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Special bullet has a slightly smaller diameter than a regular .38 S&W bullet, the bullets were slightly undersized for the barrel, causing an erratic passage down the barrel, thereby causing "inconsistent individual characteristic marks to be impressed or scratched on to the surface of the bullets" Each time it was fired, the bullet would pass down the barrel in a different way.

This is meaningless.

It's an explanation why they COULDN'T match the bullets... but this means that the bullets wouldn't match to my pistol either. Or John's pistol down the street... or my Uncle Ralph's pistol... or...

I can go on and on...

Explaining why bullets don't match ONE pistol has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it could be matched to another pistol.

The issue is THAT THE BULLETS DIDN'T MATCH - you cannot use that fact to be evidence supporting your theory that Oswald shot Tippit.

Yet Bugliosi did. And that's simply wrong.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Not mentioned by Mr Holmes was the cartridge cases being positively identified as coming from the revolver Oswald was arrested with. The FBI expert found IDENTICAL breech face and firing pin marks on the head of the cases, concluding that the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.

I'm quite sure that the current shells at NARA came from the pistol.

I quite doubt that the ORIGINAL shells did. The original shells were automatic, as described on scene.

This explains why chain of custody is so important in American justice - and these shells had a broken chain of custody.

 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Multiple witnesess saw Oswald emptying these shells near some bushes or running from the scene.

You are, of course, merely claiming what you need to prove.

You merely assume that it was Oswald, therefore it must have been Oswald.

Then you simply run away from the ACTUAL facts & evidence that contradict your faith.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Isn't it fascinating how conspiracy theorists cherry pick what they state and conveniently leave out these little tidbits of information? - they learned from the master prevaricator himself, Mark Lane.

Interestingly, each time Mark Lane comes up - believers make completely unsubstantiated claims.

You've labeled him a liar... now, can you quote (along with a cite to the page number ) from "Rush To Judgment" one of these alleged lies ... then cite the relevant evidence that shows it to be a lie?

My prediction (based on extensive past history) - you'll refuse to do so.

And THAT fact tells the true story...

Notice no denial that the empty hulls were unquestionably traced to Oswald's revolver by the FBI expert - just some insinuation that the shells were not legitimate or not the original shells collected - impressive, isn't it? 
[Ad Hominem removed]

Of course there's no "denial" - the problem isn't that the shells couldn't be demonstrated to have been fired from the pistol - the problem was the chain of custody on the shells themselves.

You complain that this isn't "impressive" - yet the American justice system routinely disallows evidence with no chain of custody - or allows it with the proviso that the jury is instructed on the problems and weakness of evidence that cannot be positively tied to the crime scene.

The evidence that the original shooting was done by an automatic is based on Callaway's eyewitness testimony, and on Sgt. Hill's on-scene radio report. This is highly credible evidence.

(03-31-2017, 10:55 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 10:50 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 10:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 10:07 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Notice the ommission Ben is guilty of:  The difficulty in matching the bullets to Oswald's revolver arose from the barrel being rechambered before being sold and the revolver was not REBARELLED to handle a .38 bullet from the cartridge. Since a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Special bullet has a slightly smaller diameter than a regular .38 S&W bullet, the bullets were slightly undersized for the barrel, causing an erratic passage down the barrel, thereby causing "inconsistent individual characteristic marks to be impressed or scratched on to the surface of the bullets" Each time it was fired, the bullet would pass down the barrel in a different way.

This is meaningless.

It's an explanation why they COULDN'T match the bullets... but this means that the bullets wouldn't match to my pistol either. Or John's pistol down the street... or my Uncle Ralph's pistol... or...

I can go on and on...

Explaining why bullets don't match ONE pistol has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it could be matched to another pistol.

The issue is THAT THE BULLETS DIDN'T MATCH - you cannot use that fact to be evidence supporting your theory that Oswald shot Tippit.

Yet Bugliosi did. And that's simply wrong.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Not mentioned by Mr Holmes was the cartridge cases being positively identified as coming from the revolver Oswald was arrested with. The FBI expert found IDENTICAL breech face and firing pin marks on the head of the cases, concluding that the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.

I'm quite sure that the current shells at NARA came from the pistol.

I quite doubt that the ORIGINAL shells did. The original shells were automatic, as described on scene.

This explains why chain of custody is so important in American justice - and these shells had a broken chain of custody.

 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Multiple witnesess saw Oswald emptying these shells near some bushes or running from the scene.

You are, of course, merely claiming what you need to prove.

You merely assume that it was Oswald, therefore it must have been Oswald.

Then you simply run away from the ACTUAL facts & evidence that contradict your faith.
 

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  Isn't it fascinating how conspiracy theorists cherry pick what they state and conveniently leave out these little tidbits of information? - they learned from the master prevaricator himself, Mark Lane.

Interestingly, each time Mark Lane comes up - believers make completely unsubstantiated claims.

You've labeled him a liar... now, can you quote (along with a cite to the page number ) from "Rush To Judgment" one of these alleged lies ... then cite the relevant evidence that shows it to be a lie?

My prediction (based on extensive past history) - you'll refuse to do so.

And THAT fact tells the true story...

Notice no denial that the empty hulls were unquestionably traced to Oswald's revolver by the FBI expert - just some insinuation that the shells were not legitimate or not the original shells collected - impressive, isn't it? 
[Ad Hominem removed]

Of course there's no "denial" - the problem isn't that the shells couldn't be demonstrated to have been fired from the pistol - the problem was the chain of custody on the shells themselves.

You complain that this isn't "impressive" - yet the American justice system routinely disallows evidence with no chain of custody - or allows it with the proviso that the jury is instructed on the problems and weakness of evidence that cannot be positively tied to the crime scene.

The evidence that the original shooting was done by an automatic is based on Callaway's eyewitness testimony, and on Sgt. Hill's on-scene radio report. This is highly credible evidence.

Callaway's testimony takes precedence over the FBI's ballistic testing of the hulls? - nonsense and you know it. The evidence against Oswald PRECLUDES any other scenario other than Oswald shot Tippit. Once again, the theorist KNOWS the evidence unavoidably points to Oswald so his ONLY approach is to TRY and shoot down that evidence. Fun watching them  make the attempt.

(03-31-2017, 03:41 PM)Hollywood Wrote:  

(03-31-2017, 03:13 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .38.

This is simply another way of saying: "We couldn't honestly state that we found any matches". This is one of the biggest stretches the Warren Commission made - they knew they had a fairly weak case against Oswald, so by framing him with the Tippit killing, they believed that they could influence people to believe the killings were somehow related.

But it really makes no sense at all.

The Warren Commission even went to the trouble of 'expert witness shopping' - since their FBI ballistic experts declined to match any Tippit bullets to the alleged Oswald pistol. They found Joseph Nicol willing to match one of the bullets... however, as Dale Myers (no friend of critics) has written:
 

Dale Myers Wrote:One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons. However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.

You won't find Vincent Bugliosi telling you this...

Notice the ommission Ben is guilty of:  The difficulty in matching the bullets to Oswald's revolver arose from the barrel being rechambered before being sold and the revolver was not REBARELLED to handle a .38 bullet from the cartridge. Since a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Special bullet has a slightly smaller diameter than a regular .38 S&W bullet, the bullets were slightly undersized for the barrel, causing an erratic passage down the barrel, thereby causing "inconsistent individual characteristic marks to be impressed or scratched on to the surface of the bullets" Each time it was fired, the bullet would pass down the barrel in a different way.

Not mentioned by Mr Holmes was the cartridge cases being positively identified as coming from the revolver Oswald was arrested with. The FBI expert found IDENTICAL breech face and firing pin marks on the head of the cases, concluding that the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons. Multiple witnesess saw Oswald emptying these shells near some bushes or running from the scene. Isn't it fascinating how conspiracy theorists cherry pick what they state and conveniently leave out these little tidbits of information? - they learned from the master prevaricator himself, Mark Lane.

(12-04-2017, 02:42 PM)fobrien1 Wrote:  the warren commission couldnt have THEIR OWN EXPERTS saying they could not match the bullets (and that is waht ALL of them said ) so very simply they went out and found a man who would say what they wanted to hear . and that was joesph nicol . unfortunately for them the HSCA would later be formed and ALL of their ballistics experts agreed with the commission experts in stating they could not match the bullets to the gun . that is as even dale myers tells you 8 ballistics experts from two different commissions saying NO THEY COULDNT MATCH THE BULLETS TO THE GUN , and just 1 (joe nicol ) saying he could match one bullet , and guess what our LN friends do ? NO THEY DONT TAKE THE WORD OF 8 COUNT THEM 8 EXPERTS no they dont , and why ? because the 8 didnt say what warren apologists want to hear . so instead they and hollywood prefer to forget the other 8 and go with the one (nicol ) wh was over ruled by 8 experts from 2 different commissions .