[Ben Holmes]

(17) Oswald walked past his normal bus stop and walked seven blocks to board a different line.

Sheer speculation... The evidence that Oswald got on a bus isn't very credible. There are three witnesses to Oswald getting on a bus... let's examine them:

Mr. McWatters, bus driver - according to the Dallas Police (CE 2003, pg 293) McWatters identified Oswald as the one on the bus... but according to his testimony, he thought a teenager named Milton Jones was the one he saw. He also testified that he picked up "Oswald" at Elm & Houston – although Bugliosi argues that Oswald walked past that bus stop. McWatters also gave Oswald an alibi in his earliest statement – his affidavit puts Oswald off the bus later than the Tippit murder.

Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description. She also gives evidence that she was NOT on the bus at the time, since there's a critical anachronism found in her testimony:

Quote:Mr. BALL - Was there traffic? Was the traffic heavy?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, it was awful in the city, and then they had roped off that around where the President was killed, shot, and we were the first car that come around there, and then all of us were talking about the man, and we were looking up to see where he was shot and looking---and then they had one man and taking him already got him in jail, and we got----"Well, I am glad they found him." 
Mr. BALL - You were looking up at where?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At where the boy was shot.
Mr. BALL - You mean the Texas Book Depository? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - School Book Depository?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh, because we were right four blocks from there, you see.

(Testimony can be found here.)

As Don Willis has pointed out: No one just entering Dealey, on a bus, around 12:40pm, would have been "looking up" at the depository, as a scene of shooting. The building had been mentioned only on the police radio, at that point, not on public TV or radio. And the area had not yet been "roped off", as Mrs. Bledsoe said that it was when they passed: "By approximately 1:00 the crowd is kept back from the front of the [depository], though not yet behind rope barricades" (photo caption, page 519, "Pictures of the Pain").

This anachronism shows that Mrs. Bledsoe was hardly a credible witness at all.


Milton Jones, a 17 year old - who stated that a person who might have been Oswald got on the bus about 6 blocks before Houston Street (Did Oswald walk six blocks before getting on the bus?). This is in direct conflict with McWatter's testimony. The only reason that Milton Jones gave for his belief that he'd seen Oswald was a conversation he had with McWatters the following Monday - where McWatters said that the man they'd both saw might have been Oswald.

So all we have here is second-hand corroboration for McWatter's statements, not an independent identification of Oswald.

It's interesting to note that both McWatters and Jones stated that this person had a blue jacket on. Jones said: "Light blue", McWatters said "faded blue". And yet, a blue jacket alleged to belong to Oswald was found at the Texas School Book Depository a few weeks later.

Mary Bledsoe, the least credible witness, asserted that he had no jacket on - and the Warren Commission accepted this - despite having two credible, corroborating witnesses that described someone who could not have been Oswald. She was also reading off notes during her Warren commission testimony - prepared by Secret Service Agent, Forrest Sorrels. When Warren commission counsel, Joseph Ball, asked her why she had notes, she responded: "Well, because I forgot what I had to say."

Note that Milton Jones accepted thought that the man he'd seen was Oswald because McWatters thought it was, yet McWatters testified that it was Milton Jones he'd seen!

The evidence for Oswald getting on the Marsalis bus has been all but refuted.

And certainly, Bugliosi's claim that Oswald walked past his normal bus stop rests on unbelievably shaky grounds.

Hardly the sort of "evidence" one would normally look for in determining the guilt of someone.

[Patrick C]

(11-12-2016, 06:50 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (17) Oswald walked past his normal bus stop and walked seven blocks to board a different line.

Sheer speculation... The evidence that Oswald got on a bus isn't very credible. There are three witnesses to Oswald getting on a bus... let's examine them:

Mr. McWatters, bus driver - according to the Dallas Police (CE 2003, pg 293) McWatters identified Oswald as the one on the bus... but according to his testimony, he thought a teenager named Milton Jones was the one he saw. He also testified that he picked up "Oswald" at Elm & Houston – although Bugliosi argues that Oswald walked past that bus stop. McWatters also gave Oswald an alibi in his earliest statement – his affidavit puts Oswald off the bus later than the Tippit murder.

Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description. She also gives evidence that she was NOT on the bus at the time, since there's a critical anachronism found in her testimony:

Quote:Mr. BALL - Was there traffic? Was the traffic heavy?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, it was awful in the city, and then they had roped off that around where the President was killed, shot, and we were the first car that come around there, and then all of us were talking about the man, and we were looking up to see where he was shot and looking---and then they had one man and taking him already got him in jail, and we got----"Well, I am glad they found him." 
Mr. BALL - You were looking up at where?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At where the boy was shot.
Mr. BALL - You mean the Texas Book Depository? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - School Book Depository?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh, because we were right four blocks from there, you see.

(Testimony can be found here.)

As Don Willis has pointed out: No one just entering Dealey, on a bus, around 12:40pm, would have been "looking up" at the depository, as a scene of shooting. The building had been mentioned only on the police radio, at that point, not on public TV or radio. And the area had not yet been "roped off", as Mrs. Bledsoe said that it was when they passed: "By approximately 1:00 the crowd is kept back from the front of the [depository], though not yet behind rope barricades" (photo caption, page 519, "Pictures of the Pain").

This anachronism shows that Mrs. Bledsoe was hardly a credible witness at all.


Milton Jones, a 17 year old - who stated that a person who might have been Oswald got on the bus about 6 blocks before Houston Street (Did Oswald walk six blocks before getting on the bus?). This is in direct conflict with McWatter's testimony. The only reason that Milton Jones gave for his belief that he'd seen Oswald was a conversation he had with McWatters the following Monday - where McWatters said that the man they'd both saw might have been Oswald.

So all we have here is second-hand corroboration for McWatter's statements, not an independent identification of Oswald.

It's interesting to note that both McWatters and Jones stated that this person had a blue jacket on. Jones said: "Light blue", McWatters said "faded blue". And yet, a blue jacket alleged to belong to Oswald was found at the Texas School Book Depository a few weeks later.

Mary Bledsoe, the least credible witness, asserted that he had no jacket on - and the Warren Commission accepted this - despite having two credible, corroborating witnesses that described someone who could not have been Oswald. She was also reading off notes during her Warren commission testimony - prepared by Secret Service Agent, Forrest Sorrels. When Warren commission counsel, Joseph Ball, asked her why she had notes, she responded: "Well, because I forgot what I had to say."

Note that Milton Jones accepted thought that the man he'd seen was Oswald because McWatters thought it was, yet McWatters testified that it was Milton Jones he'd seen!

The evidence for Oswald getting on the Marsalis bus has been all but refuted.

And certainly, Bugliosi's claim that Oswald walked past his normal bus stop rests on unbelievably shaky grounds.

Hardly the sort of "evidence" one would normally look for in determining the guilt of someone.

Quote:Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description.

Human beings are very good at recognizing  people they know - even when years have gone by. Bledsoe had seen Oswald just months before the day of the assassination. She either saw Oswald or a double. It is as simple as that.

No matter all the tripe you have writtem on this thread about Oswald not being on the bus.....there is one huge problem....he had a bus transfer ticket on him with McWatters unique hole punch on it.

Oswald was on the bus. Period. That people on the bus who did not know Oswald had doubts about the young man being Oswald was normal - Oswald was a young man of average height and build, why would they specifically remember him....? Of course there would be doubt. Not for Bledsoe though who actually KNEW him.

[Ben Holmes]

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  

(11-12-2016, 06:50 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (17) Oswald walked past his normal bus stop and walked seven blocks to board a different line.

Sheer speculation... The evidence that Oswald got on a bus isn't very credible. There are three witnesses to Oswald getting on a bus... let's examine them:

Mr. McWatters, bus driver - according to the Dallas Police (CE 2003, pg 293) McWatters identified Oswald as the one on the bus... but according to his testimony, he thought a teenager named Milton Jones was the one he saw. He also testified that he picked up "Oswald" at Elm & Houston – although Bugliosi argues that Oswald walked past that bus stop. McWatters also gave Oswald an alibi in his earliest statement – his affidavit puts Oswald off the bus later than the Tippit murder.

Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description. She also gives evidence that she was NOT on the bus at the time, since there's a critical anachronism found in her testimony:

Quote:Mr. BALL - Was there traffic? Was the traffic heavy?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, it was awful in the city, and then they had roped off that around where the President was killed, shot, and we were the first car that come around there, and then all of us were talking about the man, and we were looking up to see where he was shot and looking---and then they had one man and taking him already got him in jail, and we got----"Well, I am glad they found him." 
Mr. BALL - You were looking up at where?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At where the boy was shot.
Mr. BALL - You mean the Texas Book Depository? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - School Book Depository?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh, because we were right four blocks from there, you see.

(Testimony can be found here.)

As Don Willis has pointed out: No one just entering Dealey, on a bus, around 12:40pm, would have been "looking up" at the depository, as a scene of shooting. The building had been mentioned only on the police radio, at that point, not on public TV or radio. And the area had not yet been "roped off", as Mrs. Bledsoe said that it was when they passed: "By approximately 1:00 the crowd is kept back from the front of the [depository], though not yet behind rope barricades" (photo caption, page 519, "Pictures of the Pain").

This anachronism shows that Mrs. Bledsoe was hardly a credible witness at all.


Milton Jones, a 17 year old - who stated that a person who might have been Oswald got on the bus about 6 blocks before Houston Street (Did Oswald walk six blocks before getting on the bus?). This is in direct conflict with McWatter's testimony. The only reason that Milton Jones gave for his belief that he'd seen Oswald was a conversation he had with McWatters the following Monday - where McWatters said that the man they'd both saw might have been Oswald.

So all we have here is second-hand corroboration for McWatter's statements, not an independent identification of Oswald.

It's interesting to note that both McWatters and Jones stated that this person had a blue jacket on. Jones said: "Light blue", McWatters said "faded blue". And yet, a blue jacket alleged to belong to Oswald was found at the Texas School Book Depository a few weeks later.

Mary Bledsoe, the least credible witness, asserted that he had no jacket on - and the Warren Commission accepted this - despite having two credible, corroborating witnesses that described someone who could not have been Oswald. She was also reading off notes during her Warren commission testimony - prepared by Secret Service Agent, Forrest Sorrels. When Warren commission counsel, Joseph Ball, asked her why she had notes, she responded: "Well, because I forgot what I had to say."

Note that Milton Jones accepted thought that the man he'd seen was Oswald because McWatters thought it was, yet McWatters testified that it was Milton Jones he'd seen!

The evidence for Oswald getting on the Marsalis bus has been all but refuted.

And certainly, Bugliosi's claim that Oswald walked past his normal bus stop rests on unbelievably shaky grounds.

Hardly the sort of "evidence" one would normally look for in determining the guilt of someone.

Quote:Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description.

Human beings are very good at recognizing  people they know - even when years have gone by. Bledsoe had seen Oswald just months before the day of the assassination. She either saw Oswald or a double. It is as simple as that.

Quite the coward, aren't you Patrick?

You refused COMPLETELY to address the anachronism in her testimony. You KNOW that this problem works against Bledsoe, so you simply refuse to address it.

Nor did you address most of this post... you picked out one item, THEN REFUSED TO COMPLETELY ADDRESS IT, and hope that your cowardice isn't noted.

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  No matter all the tripe you have writtem on this thread about Oswald not being on the bus.....there is one huge problem....he had a bus transfer ticket on him with McWatters unique hole punch on it.

No he didn't.

Quote:After DPD Detective Richard Sims found bus transfer No. 4459 in Oswald's shirt pocket the Dallas Police contacted Mr. Yates, Division Superintendent of the Dallas Transit System. Yates told police that bus drivers were given a book of 50 bus transfers each morning. Drivers tore off the first transfer, wrote their badge number on the back side, and left the first transfer in the office. The transfer found by the Dallas Police, No. 4459, came from the book which contained transfers No. 4451 through 4500. The first transfer from this book had the number "195" written on the backside, which was Cecil McWatters' badge number.

McWatters was picked up by the Dallas Police and escorted to headquarters shortly after 6:00 pm. When shown transfer No. 4459 McWatters said, "Yes, that is the transfer I issued because it had my punch mark on it ..... I only gave two transfers going through town on that trip (from North Dallas south to Oak Cliff) and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady (the blond lady who was probably following Oswald) and the gentlemen (Harvey Oswald) that got off the bus, I issued two transfers. But that was the only two transfers were issued."84

The exhibit we have from McWatters’ book is transfer # 4451, the first in the series from that book, and the one left by SOP…. with a note on the back stating that the transfer comes from the same book from which the accused assassin of JFK was taken… If he only issued two transfers, one to a lady who gets off which causes the Oswald impersonator to grab a transfer and also get off… then it would have to come from either the FRONT of the book (4452 and 4453) or the back of the book (4500 or 4498). Yet the transfer which has gone from Oswald’s work shirt to now his arrest shirt and found during the 2nd search is #4459…

We do not get to see the original book from which 4459 was torn, and yet we are given 4451 and are told that is the book from which 4459 was torn… That is the total extent of the authentication for that transfer…

Any honest man will see the problems here...

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  Oswald was on the bus. Period. That people on the bus who did not know Oswald had doubts about the young man being Oswald was normal - Oswald was a young man of average height and build, why would they specifically remember him....? Of course there would be doubt. Not for Bledsoe though who actually KNEW him.

An assertion that simply refuses to address the actual evidence I posted.

You aren't going to convince anyone with naked assertions... you have to provide evidence. You have to provide logical argument.

Cowardice and lying simply won't do the job.

Don't you understand this?

[Patrick C]

(11-15-2016, 02:48 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  

(11-12-2016, 06:50 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  (17) Oswald walked past his normal bus stop and walked seven blocks to board a different line.

Sheer speculation... The evidence that Oswald got on a bus isn't very credible. There are three witnesses to Oswald getting on a bus... let's examine them:

Mr. McWatters, bus driver - according to the Dallas Police (CE 2003, pg 293) McWatters identified Oswald as the one on the bus... but according to his testimony, he thought a teenager named Milton Jones was the one he saw. He also testified that he picked up "Oswald" at Elm & Houston – although Bugliosi argues that Oswald walked past that bus stop. McWatters also gave Oswald an alibi in his earliest statement – his affidavit puts Oswald off the bus later than the Tippit murder.

Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description. She also gives evidence that she was NOT on the bus at the time, since there's a critical anachronism found in her testimony:

Quote:Mr. BALL - Was there traffic? Was the traffic heavy?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, it was awful in the city, and then they had roped off that around where the President was killed, shot, and we were the first car that come around there, and then all of us were talking about the man, and we were looking up to see where he was shot and looking---and then they had one man and taking him already got him in jail, and we got----"Well, I am glad they found him." 
Mr. BALL - You were looking up at where?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At where the boy was shot.
Mr. BALL - You mean the Texas Book Depository? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - School Book Depository?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh, because we were right four blocks from there, you see.

(Testimony can be found here.)

As Don Willis has pointed out: No one just entering Dealey, on a bus, around 12:40pm, would have been "looking up" at the depository, as a scene of shooting. The building had been mentioned only on the police radio, at that point, not on public TV or radio. And the area had not yet been "roped off", as Mrs. Bledsoe said that it was when they passed: "By approximately 1:00 the crowd is kept back from the front of the [depository], though not yet behind rope barricades" (photo caption, page 519, "Pictures of the Pain").

This anachronism shows that Mrs. Bledsoe was hardly a credible witness at all.


Milton Jones, a 17 year old - who stated that a person who might have been Oswald got on the bus about 6 blocks before Houston Street (Did Oswald walk six blocks before getting on the bus?). This is in direct conflict with McWatter's testimony. The only reason that Milton Jones gave for his belief that he'd seen Oswald was a conversation he had with McWatters the following Monday - where McWatters said that the man they'd both saw might have been Oswald.

So all we have here is second-hand corroboration for McWatter's statements, not an independent identification of Oswald.

It's interesting to note that both McWatters and Jones stated that this person had a blue jacket on. Jones said: "Light blue", McWatters said "faded blue". And yet, a blue jacket alleged to belong to Oswald was found at the Texas School Book Depository a few weeks later.

Mary Bledsoe, the least credible witness, asserted that he had no jacket on - and the Warren Commission accepted this - despite having two credible, corroborating witnesses that described someone who could not have been Oswald. She was also reading off notes during her Warren commission testimony - prepared by Secret Service Agent, Forrest Sorrels. When Warren commission counsel, Joseph Ball, asked her why she had notes, she responded: "Well, because I forgot what I had to say."

Note that Milton Jones accepted thought that the man he'd seen was Oswald because McWatters thought it was, yet McWatters testified that it was Milton Jones he'd seen!

The evidence for Oswald getting on the Marsalis bus has been all but refuted.

And certainly, Bugliosi's claim that Oswald walked past his normal bus stop rests on unbelievably shaky grounds.

Hardly the sort of "evidence" one would normally look for in determining the guilt of someone.

Quote:Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description.

Human beings are very good at recognizing  people they know - even when years have gone by. Bledsoe had seen Oswald just months before the day of the assassination. She either saw Oswald or a double. It is as simple as that.

Quite the coward, aren't you Patrick?

You refused COMPLETELY to address the anachronism in her testimony. You KNOW that this problem works against Bledsoe, so you simply refuse to address it.

Nor did you address most of this post... you picked out one item, THEN REFUSED TO COMPLETELY ADDRESS IT, and hope that your cowardice isn't noted.

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  No matter all the tripe you have writtem on this thread about Oswald not being on the bus.....there is one huge problem....he had a bus transfer ticket on him with McWatters unique hole punch on it.

No he didn't.

Quote:After DPD Detective Richard Sims found bus transfer No. 4459 in Oswald's shirt pocket the Dallas Police contacted Mr. Yates, Division Superintendent of the Dallas Transit System. Yates told police that bus drivers were given a book of 50 bus transfers each morning. Drivers tore off the first transfer, wrote their badge number on the back side, and left the first transfer in the office. The transfer found by the Dallas Police, No. 4459, came from the book which contained transfers No. 4451 through 4500. The first transfer from this book had the number "195" written on the backside, which was Cecil McWatters' badge number.

McWatters was picked up by the Dallas Police and escorted to headquarters shortly after 6:00 pm. When shown transfer No. 4459 McWatters said, "Yes, that is the transfer I issued because it had my punch mark on it ..... I only gave two transfers going through town on that trip (from North Dallas south to Oak Cliff) and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady (the blond lady who was probably following Oswald) and the gentlemen (Harvey Oswald) that got off the bus, I issued two transfers. But that was the only two transfers were issued."84

The exhibit we have from McWatters’ book is transfer # 4451, the first in the series from that book, and the one left by SOP…. with a note on the back stating that the transfer comes from the same book from which the accused assassin of JFK was taken… If he only issued two transfers, one to a lady who gets off which causes the Oswald impersonator to grab a transfer and also get off… then it would have to come from either the FRONT of the book (4452 and 4453) or the back of the book (4500 or 4498). Yet the transfer which has gone from Oswald’s work shirt to now his arrest shirt and found during the 2nd search is #4459…

We do not get to see the original book from which 4459 was torn, and yet we are given 4451 and are told that is the book from which 4459 was torn… That is the total extent of the authentication for that transfer…

Any honest man will see the problems here...

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  Oswald was on the bus. Period. That people on the bus who did not know Oswald had doubts about the young man being Oswald was normal - Oswald was a young man of average height and build, why would they specifically remember him....? Of course there would be doubt. Not for Bledsoe though who actually KNEW him.

An assertion that simply refuses to address the actual evidence I posted.

You aren't going to convince anyone with naked assertions... you have to provide evidence. You have to provide logical argument.

Cowardice and lying simply won't do the job.

Don't you understand this?

I understand that youu are largely incapable of making any response without accusing me of lying and cowardice.

You are ignorant and juvenile. Which is why I rarely post or in fact read posts here. You have provided ZERO evidence that Oswald was not on the bus. The transfer ticket proves he was on the bus unless it was planted - which as we know would be nigh on impossible given that there was only one place the ticket could be produced - by the driver on the bus on Nov 22 1963.

So all you warblings on this matter are a waste of time.

"When he was apprehended, Oswald had a bus transfer for the Lakewood-Marsalis route in his shirt pocket. The transfer, dated "Fri. Nov. 22, '63," was punched in two places by the bus driver. 

Because Dallas bus drivers had distinctive punchmarks, this transfer was conclusively linked to Cecil J. McWatters, who drove for the Dallas Transit Co. McWatters later testified that he issued the transfer to a man who "beat on the front door of the bus, boarded it and paid his fare."

Two blocks later, a female passenger "asked to get off to make a 1 o'clock train at Union Station and requested a transfer which she might use if she got through the traffic."  The man who had just boarded the bus also requested a transfer and got off at the same spot.  

According to the bus driver both passengers left the bus "at the intersection near Lamar Street, it was near Poydras and Lamar Street."

[Ben Holmes]

(11-16-2016, 01:42 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  

(11-15-2016, 02:48 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:  

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  

Quote:Mary Bledsoe - former landlady for Oswald - testified that she'd seen Oswald on the bus, "looking like a maniac," his shirt undone, his "sleeve was out here," he was dirty, he "looked so bad in his face, and his face was so distorted." Mrs. Bledsoe clearly despised Oswald, and could hardly be considered a credible witness in her description.

Human beings are very good at recognizing  people they know - even when years have gone by. Bledsoe had seen Oswald just months before the day of the assassination. She either saw Oswald or a double. It is as simple as that.

Quite the coward, aren't you Patrick?

You refused COMPLETELY to address the anachronism in her testimony. You KNOW that this problem works against Bledsoe, so you simply refuse to address it.

Nor did you address most of this post... you picked out one item, THEN REFUSED TO COMPLETELY ADDRESS IT, and hope that your cowardice isn't noted.

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  No matter all the tripe you have writtem on this thread about Oswald not being on the bus.....there is one huge problem....he had a bus transfer ticket on him with McWatters unique hole punch on it.

No he didn't.

Quote:After DPD Detective Richard Sims found bus transfer No. 4459 in Oswald's shirt pocket the Dallas Police contacted Mr. Yates, Division Superintendent of the Dallas Transit System. Yates told police that bus drivers were given a book of 50 bus transfers each morning. Drivers tore off the first transfer, wrote their badge number on the back side, and left the first transfer in the office. The transfer found by the Dallas Police, No. 4459, came from the book which contained transfers No. 4451 through 4500. The first transfer from this book had the number "195" written on the backside, which was Cecil McWatters' badge number.

McWatters was picked up by the Dallas Police and escorted to headquarters shortly after 6:00 pm. When shown transfer No. 4459 McWatters said, "Yes, that is the transfer I issued because it had my punch mark on it ..... I only gave two transfers going through town on that trip (from North Dallas south to Oak Cliff) and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady (the blond lady who was probably following Oswald) and the gentlemen (Harvey Oswald) that got off the bus, I issued two transfers. But that was the only two transfers were issued."84

The exhibit we have from McWatters’ book is transfer # 4451, the first in the series from that book, and the one left by SOP…. with a note on the back stating that the transfer comes from the same book from which the accused assassin of JFK was taken… If he only issued two transfers, one to a lady who gets off which causes the Oswald impersonator to grab a transfer and also get off… then it would have to come from either the FRONT of the book (4452 and 4453) or the back of the book (4500 or 4498). Yet the transfer which has gone from Oswald’s work shirt to now his arrest shirt and found during the 2nd search is #4459…

We do not get to see the original book from which 4459 was torn, and yet we are given 4451 and are told that is the book from which 4459 was torn… That is the total extent of the authentication for that transfer…

Any honest man will see the problems here...

(11-15-2016, 11:43 AM)Patrick C Wrote:  Oswald was on the bus. Period. That people on the bus who did not know Oswald had doubts about the young man being Oswald was normal - Oswald was a young man of average height and build, why would they specifically remember him....? Of course there would be doubt. Not for Bledsoe though who actually KNEW him.

An assertion that simply refuses to address the actual evidence I posted.

You aren't going to convince anyone with naked assertions... you have to provide evidence. You have to provide logical argument.

Cowardice and lying simply won't do the job.

Don't you understand this?

I understand that youu are largely incapable of making any response without accusing me of lying and cowardice.

Au contraire! I don't "accuse" you of lying and cowardice, I POINT IT OUT.

The fact that you continue to refuse to even try to defend a lie when I point it out, or defend against the charge of cowardice ... simply shows that you can't.

(11-16-2016, 01:42 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  You are ignorant and juvenile. Which is why I rarely post or in fact read posts here.

Believers give all sorts of reasons why they refuse to debate. None of them are credible.

There's a very simple reason, both credible and true - why believers refuse to debate... THEY CAN'T! The evidence simply isn't in their favor. You label me "ignorant" - yet you're on record as stating that "I would not include Holmes, at least he has been consistently eccentric and obnoxious all along and to give him some credit, he is usually reasonably accurate in terms of facts - just woefully off in interpretation and hugely biased and selective in presenting arguments......"

So tell us Patrick, how can I both be "ignorant" and "reasonably accurate in terms of facts?" I've corrected YOU on a number of issues... issues you pretend to have simply "forgotten". Yet despite that fact, you label ME "ignorant".

Tell us Patrick, don't you think that the claim that I'm "ignorant and juvenile" reflects far more on you than it does on me?

(11-16-2016, 01:42 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  You have provided ZERO evidence that Oswald was not on the bus."

You're lying again, Patrick.

Which explains, no doubt, your cowardice in actually addressing all the issues raised by my post. Such as the sheer impossibility of Bledsoe's testimony.

(11-16-2016, 01:42 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  The transfer ticket proves he was on the bus unless it was planted - which as we know would be nigh on impossible given that there was only one place the ticket could be produced - by the driver on the bus on Nov 22 1963.

Once again, you're simply making assertions that you can't support. Unless you can point to the ticket book that the ticket came out of, you have a massive problem on your hands.

So it's easy to simply label you a liar again - because I know for a FACT that you'll never produce the ticket book, or explain the inconsistencies seen in this evidence.
 

(11-16-2016, 01:42 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  So all you warblings on this matter are a waste of time.

How can it be?

You demonstrate your cowardice each time I post...

How is it a "waste of time" to show that believers are cowards?

Why can't you make the case for your theory?

Why am I able to do what you cannot?

(11-16-2016, 01:42 PM)Patrick C Wrote:  "When he was apprehended, Oswald had a bus transfer for the Lakewood-Marsalis route in his shirt pocket. The transfer, dated "Fri. Nov. 22, '63," was punched in two places by the bus driver. 

Because Dallas bus drivers had distinctive punchmarks, this transfer was conclusively linked to Cecil J. McWatters, who drove for the Dallas Transit Co. McWatters later testified that he issued the transfer to a man who "beat on the front door of the bus, boarded it and paid his fare."

Two blocks later, a female passenger "asked to get off to make a 1 o'clock train at Union Station and requested a transfer which she might use if she got through the traffic."  The man who had just boarded the bus also requested a transfer and got off at the same spot.  

According to the bus driver both passengers left the bus "at the intersection near Lamar Street, it was near Poydras and Lamar Street."

ONCE AGAIN, PATRICK; YOU ILLUSTRATE YOUR COMPLETE AND TOTAL COWARDICE!!!

Here it is again, for you to run from again... the complete refutation of your above nonsense.
 

Quote:After DPD Detective Richard Sims found bus transfer No. 4459 in Oswald's shirt pocket the Dallas Police contacted Mr. Yates, Division Superintendent of the Dallas Transit System. Yates told police that bus drivers were given a book of 50 bus transfers each morning. Drivers tore off the first transfer, wrote their badge number on the back side, and left the first transfer in the office. The transfer found by the Dallas Police, No. 4459, came from the book which contained transfers No. 4451 through 4500. The first transfer from this book had the number "195" written on the backside, which was Cecil McWatters' badge number.

McWatters was picked up by the Dallas Police and escorted to headquarters shortly after 6:00 pm. When shown transfer No. 4459 McWatters said, "Yes, that is the transfer I issued because it had my punch mark on it ..... I only gave two transfers going through town on that trip (from North Dallas south to Oak Cliff) and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady (the blond lady who was probably following Oswald) and the gentlemen (Harvey Oswald) that got off the bus, I issued two transfers. But that was the only two transfers were issued."84

The exhibit we have from McWatters’ book is transfer # 4451, the first in the series from that book, and the one left by SOP…. with a note on the back stating that the transfer comes from the same book from which the accused assassin of JFK was taken… If he only issued two transfers, one to a lady who gets off which causes the Oswald impersonator to grab a transfer and also get off… then it would have to come from either the FRONT of the book (4452 and 4453) or the back of the book (4500 or 4498). Yet the transfer which has gone from Oswald’s work shirt to now his arrest shirt and found during the 2nd search is #4459…

We do not get to see the original book from which 4459 was torn, and yet we are given 4451 and are told that is the book from which 4459 was torn… That is the total extent of the authentication for that transfer…

Any honest man will see the problems here... but clearly, Patrick; you don't fall into that category.