#1
Conspiracy JFK Forum
Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
(7) Frazier noticed that for the first time on a return trip from Irving, Oswald brought no lunch.
Most statements from Frazier can be credibly debated... he was a suspect in the case, and had his rifle confiscated, and was ran through a lie detector test that night. (CE 2003 pg. 183) Oswald said he ate lunch, and others saw him eating lunch.
So where did the lunch come from?
Frazier was certainly in a quandary – he couldn't claim he saw Oswald with a paper bag (that was too short to have a rifle), and a SECOND paper bag containing his lunch. A choice had to be made.
But we KNOW that Oswald ate lunch. Now, he could conceivably have purchased it, but as Frazier admits, Oswald ALWAYS brought his lunch – at least to his knowledge:
Here's a perfect example of where Warren Commission Believers – faced with competing 'facts' – will always choose the one that supports their theory. We know that Oswald ate lunch, we know he is known to have regularly BROUGHT his lunch... but you need the rifle to come into the building somehow (despite the fact that there were a couple of rifles in the building just a few days earlier... not very difficult to bring rifles in!) - so you had to co-opt Oswald's lunch bag to serve as a rifle case.
Now, the obvious question – where did Oswald get his lunch – can be reasonably answered, perhaps he bought it from the 10 am catering service... but here we have speculation instead of evidence.
And speculation isn't evidence of ANYONE'S guilt.
Most statements from Frazier can be credibly debated... he was a suspect in the case, and had his rifle confiscated, and was ran through a lie detector test that night. (CE 2003 pg. 183) Oswald said he ate lunch, and others saw him eating lunch.
So where did the lunch come from?
Frazier was certainly in a quandary – he couldn't claim he saw Oswald with a paper bag (that was too short to have a rifle), and a SECOND paper bag containing his lunch. A choice had to be made.
But we KNOW that Oswald ate lunch. Now, he could conceivably have purchased it, but as Frazier admits, Oswald ALWAYS brought his lunch – at least to his knowledge:
Quote:Mr. BALL - Do you remember whether or not when Oswald came back with you on any Monday morning or any weekend did he pack his lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. BALL - He did?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. When he rode with me, I say he always brought lunch except that one day on November 22 he didn't bring his lunch that day.
Here's a perfect example of where Warren Commission Believers – faced with competing 'facts' – will always choose the one that supports their theory. We know that Oswald ate lunch, we know he is known to have regularly BROUGHT his lunch... but you need the rifle to come into the building somehow (despite the fact that there were a couple of rifles in the building just a few days earlier... not very difficult to bring rifles in!) - so you had to co-opt Oswald's lunch bag to serve as a rifle case.
Now, the obvious question – where did Oswald get his lunch – can be reasonably answered, perhaps he bought it from the 10 am catering service... but here we have speculation instead of evidence.
And speculation isn't evidence of ANYONE'S guilt.
RE: Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
He could have put the lunch bag within the rifle bag. If I were carrying two packages to work and one was much larger than the other, I would probably put the smaller one inside the larger one.
Was Marina ever asked if there was evidence Lee made his lunch in the Paine's kitchen.
Oswald could have run out to get a sandwich on Elm St. I asked Mary Ferrell if there were cafes or sandwhich bars and deli type places near the TSBD in 1963 and she said yes within a minutes walk or so......
I assume a catering service is like a small van outside or a delivery guy with a tray full of options in the lobby....
Was Marina ever asked if there was evidence Lee made his lunch in the Paine's kitchen.
Oswald could have run out to get a sandwich on Elm St. I asked Mary Ferrell if there were cafes or sandwhich bars and deli type places near the TSBD in 1963 and she said yes within a minutes walk or so......
I assume a catering service is like a small van outside or a delivery guy with a tray full of options in the lobby....
RE: Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
(10-23-2016, 03:06 PM)Patrick C Wrote: He could have put the lunch bag within the rifle bag. If I were carrying two packages to work and one was much larger than the other, I would probably put the smaller one inside the larger one.
Was Marina ever asked if there was evidence Lee made his lunch in the Paine's kitchen.
Oswald could have run out to get a sandwich on Elm St. I asked Mary Ferrell if there were cafes or sandwhich bars and deli type places near the TSBD in 1963 and she said yes within a minutes walk or so......
I assume a catering service is like a small van outside or a delivery guy with a tray full of options in the lobby....
This is a perfect example of a believer using his faith to speculate about the evidence needed to support his faith.
You "assume" what the evidence is, rather than actually examine the REAL evidence...
RE: Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
(10-24-2016, 01:36 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:(10-23-2016, 03:06 PM)Patrick C Wrote: He could have put the lunch bag within the rifle bag. If I were carrying two packages to work and one was much larger than the other, I would probably put the smaller one inside the larger one.
Was Marina ever asked if there was evidence Lee made his lunch in the Paine's kitchen.
Oswald could have run out to get a sandwich on Elm St. I asked Mary Ferrell if there were cafes or sandwhich bars and deli type places near the TSBD in 1963 and she said yes within a minutes walk or so......
I assume a catering service is like a small van outside or a delivery guy with a tray full of options in the lobby....
This is a perfect example of a believer using his faith to speculate about the evidence needed to support his faith.
You "assume" what the evidence is, rather than actually examine the REAL evidence...
Well of course we have NO IDEA where Oswald got his lunch from do we Ben, so speculation is the ONLY option....
DUH !!!!!!!
Where do you people come from.....?
RE: Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
(10-24-2016, 07:30 PM)Patrick C Wrote:(10-24-2016, 01:36 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:(10-23-2016, 03:06 PM)Patrick C Wrote: He could have put the lunch bag within the rifle bag. If I were carrying two packages to work and one was much larger than the other, I would probably put the smaller one inside the larger one.
Was Marina ever asked if there was evidence Lee made his lunch in the Paine's kitchen.
Oswald could have run out to get a sandwich on Elm St. I asked Mary Ferrell if there were cafes or sandwhich bars and deli type places near the TSBD in 1963 and she said yes within a minutes walk or so......
I assume a catering service is like a small van outside or a delivery guy with a tray full of options in the lobby....
This is a perfect example of a believer using his faith to speculate about the evidence needed to support his faith.
You "assume" what the evidence is, rather than actually examine the REAL evidence...
Well of course we have NO IDEA where Oswald got his lunch from do we Ben, so speculation is the ONLY option....
DUH !!!!!!!
Where do you people come from.....?
And the real evidence simply doesn't support your faith.
Indeed, it contradicts your faith.
I don't need to speculate... the evidence is on my side.
RE: Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
(10-24-2016, 11:59 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:(10-24-2016, 07:30 PM)Patrick C Wrote:(10-24-2016, 01:36 PM)Ben Holmes Wrote:(10-23-2016, 03:06 PM)Patrick C Wrote: He could have put the lunch bag within the rifle bag. If I were carrying two packages to work and one was much larger than the other, I would probably put the smaller one inside the larger one.
Was Marina ever asked if there was evidence Lee made his lunch in the Paine's kitchen.
Oswald could have run out to get a sandwich on Elm St. I asked Mary Ferrell if there were cafes or sandwhich bars and deli type places near the TSBD in 1963 and she said yes within a minutes walk or so......
I assume a catering service is like a small van outside or a delivery guy with a tray full of options in the lobby....
This is a perfect example of a believer using his faith to speculate about the evidence needed to support his faith.
You "assume" what the evidence is, rather than actually examine the REAL evidence...
Well of course we have NO IDEA where Oswald got his lunch from do we Ben, so speculation is the ONLY option....
DUH !!!!!!!
Where do you people come from.....?
And the real evidence simply doesn't support your faith.
Indeed, it contradicts your faith.
I don't need to speculate... the evidence is on my side.
"Well of course we have NO IDEA where Oswald got his lunch from do we Ben, so speculation is the ONLY option...."
We were talking about where Oswald got his lunch.
I am correct in stating we do not know.
Therefore we can only speculate and there are some obvious options.
Your answer that the "evidence is on my side" makes no logical sense in response to the above.
We do not have the evidence to show where Oswald got his lunch. All we know is that he did not have a visible lunch bag that morning according to Frazier and that he did when he rode in on Monday mornings after his usual weekend visits.
RE: Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons... #7 Refuted.
(10-25-2016, 01:55 PM)Patrick C Wrote: "Well of course we have NO IDEA where Oswald got his lunch from do we Ben, so speculation is the ONLY option...."
We were talking about where Oswald got his lunch.
I am correct in stating we do not know.
Therefore we can only speculate and there are some obvious options.
Your answer that the "evidence is on my side" makes no logical sense in response to the above.
We do not have the evidence to show where Oswald got his lunch. All we know is that he did not have a visible lunch bag that morning according to Frazier and that he did when he rode in on Monday mornings after his usual weekend visits.
Once again, the presumption is made that Oswald is guilty, and EVERYTHING is hinged on that presumption. He couldn't have brought his lunch - because he was carrying the rifle... but if he did bring his lunch, he hid it inside the bag carrying the rifle.
The silliness of the Warren Commission Supporter's crowd is truly amusing!
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