[Patrick C]

I was somewhat bemused to read this today on Amazon JFK Part VI by Magus Maverik ....

One of my main areas of interest has been the actual shooting, as opposed for example, was it the Mob or the CIA.....or just Oswald acting alone...?

Here it is:-

Magus Maverik Wrote:Kennedy was killed in an ambush of triangulated gunfire involving at least three and probably five shooting positions. There were shooters from the front and rear and both sides in a matrix. There were shooters from the Daltex building both on the roof, and a lower sniper on a fire escape latter. So there WERE shooters from the rear. All such events are based on contingency, there are always glitches in the best laid plans. There were shooters from the grassy knoll area to the right of the limousine and shooters from the front nearer the triple overpass (Elm), one on the northwest side at the and one at the southwest side just above Commerce Street. it was the sniper at the last position that made the head shot. Both Kennedy an Connally were hit from behind and from the side as well. JFK in the back, likely from the shooter on the fire escape on the Daltex Bldg due to the angle of entry. The shooter on the fifth floor of the TSBD likely hit Connally in the back/armpit. A shooter from the grassy knoll likely hit Connally in his right wrist.

Finally the first hit to Kennedy was in the throat by a flechette fired from within an open umbrella from the curb just to the right of the FWY sign on Elm, when the limo was about 30 to 40 feet from that spot. This flechette was tipped with shellfish toxin, which paralyzes the victim.

At first I wondered is this a plot for a novel or is it simply the author having a laugh with us...?

Magus Maverik Wrote:Obviously the staging of the "snipers nest" was time sensitive and had to be staged just before the motorcade arrived. It was likely set up by one or two employees of the TSBD. The subsequent discovery may not have been successfully carried out by the party or parties meant to find the snipers nest. At this point after the shots were fired and the limo had left the scene, the ensuing confusion and panic would necessitate playing it by the ear as things developed. Fritz picking up the bullet hulls and pocketing them may have very well been simple stupidity. There may have been other motives; perhaps it was realized that more hits had been scored than planned and there was to be an attempt to add a shell to the "nest" scene. More than likely just allowing the scene to be overrun by the scores of people that ended up there was enough to satisfy the intent to provide a confusion of contradictory evidence that would benefit the planners.

Is Fritz in on the plot here...?

Magus Maverik Wrote:These are both plausible scenarios in answer to the questions posed. These answers attend to the facts of the case as I have come to understand them during more than 40 years of study and research.

IMO, the scenarios above are NOT plausible at all, if it has taken 40 years to reach those conclusions M M then I am sure nothing I will write will change your mind.

I suggest to you that your scenario is extreme.

I interviewed some people who worked in the Daltex building around 1983 - ie they worked there on Nov 22 1963. There was no scope for an assassin on the fire escape and neither in the rooms with windows open to Elm. That is just conspiracy theory nonsense. The rooms were packed with workers.

The notion that there were 5 or more shooters flies in the face of witness testimony.....3 shots or 2 or 3 said approx 98% of the witnesses. Around 10 people thought 4.

How were their shots disguised...?
How come there were so many misses..?
How come the bullets were not found by the hundreds of bystanders..?

Magus Maverik Wrote:There were shooters from the grassy knoll area to the right of the limousine and shooters from the front nearer the triple overpass (Elm), one on the northwest side at the and one at the southwest side just above Commerce Street. it was the sniper at the last position that made the head shot.

I take it then M M that you were wither part of the plot or have met a plotter who gave you these exact details....?

If you made you post as a "personal theory" rather than as a "known to you set of facts", I for one could take your suggestion with more than a grain of seriousness.

As it stands, your theory is merely wayward conjecture posted as fact. And we have a word for that.

I will be polite and refrain from using it.

[Ben Holmes]

Much of what 'Magus Maverik' wrote has evidence to support it... and some of it is quite bizarre and extreme.

That there were more than a single shooter is quite well supported by the earliest of evidence... some theories, like flechettes, are completely unsupportable by any known evidence.

As for the Daltex building, Patrick is well aware of the fact that one or more people (I can't recall the number) were arrested in that building... so the idea isn't quite as far-fetched as he makes it out to be... (Dale Hayes, in the Amazon forums, made the dishonest claim that there was no evidence for a Daltex shooter.)

But, let's answer Patrick's questions:

Patrick C Wrote:How were their shots disguised...?

Probably the same way the evidence shows. Patrick is well aware of the fact that witnesses reported that what they later accepted as shots sounded different from each other. A supressed weapon would certainly sound 'different' than a regular rifle or pistol.

In any case, the short period of shooting would also disguise the number of shots. If you were to spread, for example, 5 shots over 30 seconds, quite a few witnesses would be able to accurately count them. But compress those same five shots into 5 seconds, and few people would... it would merely sound like a "flurry" of shots.

This is merely common sense.

Patrick C Wrote:How come there were so many misses..?

Ask the three NRA rated Masters, who also managed a miss or two... despite having so many advantages in their test. Or you could ask Oswald, who missed many a target, as WC testimony revealed.

Poor shooters miss.
Outstanding shooters miss.

What is so difficult to understand?

Patrick C Wrote:How come the bullets were not found by the hundreds of bystanders..?

Bullets were found... such as the Lester bullet I so recently cited for... (HSCA 7, pg 357-358)

[Patrick C]

Ben Holmes Wrote:As for the Daltex building, Patrick is well aware of the fact that one or more people (I can't recall the number) were arrested in that building... so the idea isn't quite as far-fetched as he makes it out to be... (Dale Hayes, in the Amazon forums, made the dishonest claim that there was no evidence for a Daltex shooter.)

Ben, there is a difference between people getting arrested in the Daltex Buidling and workers NOT seeing an assassin hanging out the window or fire escape....a big difference....

[Ben Holmes]

Patrick C Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:As for the Daltex building, Patrick is well aware of the fact that one or more people (I can't recall the number) were arrested in that building... so the idea isn't quite as far-fetched as he makes it out to be... (Dale Hayes, in the Amazon forums, made the dishonest claim that there was no evidence for a Daltex shooter.)

Ben, there is a difference between people getting arrested in the Daltex Buidling and workers NOT seeing an assassin hanging out the window or fire escape....a big difference....

Patrick, there is a difference between no evidence for strangers or possible shooters in the Daltex building, and evidence FOR strangers or possible shooters in the Daltex building... a big difference.

You asserted:

Patrick C Wrote:There was no scope for an assassin on the fire escape and neither in the rooms with windows open to Elm. That is just conspiracy theory nonsense. The rooms were packed with workers.

Thus implying that there simply wasn't any evidence for a Daltex shooter... and Dale made that charge explicitly...

Yet, as I pointed out... there is evidence for strangers in the building, there is evidence that the police were interested enough to arrest someone.

A shooter from the Daltex is simply not as silly as you and Dale imply.

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