[Ben Holmes]

Michael Baden Wrote:The [autopsy] photographer was there, the corpsman who usually took pictures of damaged hearts and cirrhotic livers and other diseases. He was snapping away when he caught the attention of an FBI agent, who came up to him and asked for his clearance. 'Clearance?' said the corpsman. 'This is my job.' The agent took away his camera, exposed all the film, and threw him out. (The exposed film is in the archive.) 'We've got our own man taking pictures,' the FBI agent said. The FBI photographer, who had clearance, was in the same quandary as Humes. He had never taken autopsy pictures before and was untrained in photographing gunshot wounds. The photographs of the body's interior were out of focus ... Before the President was buried, no one, either in Dallas or Washington, looked at both sides of the body, front and back, and realized that a bullet had entered the back and exited the throat ... .

Michael Baden "Unnatural Death - Confessions of a Medical Examiner", pg. 10-11

It's interesting that not a single WCR Supporter has been able to accurately and correctly analyze this paragraph by Dr. Baden. Anyone want to try?

[Patrick C]

"accurately and correctly analyze"

According to who...you Ben...?

Goodness me, this was the murder of a US president.....!

One can only imagine what rules were broken on that day and that weekend ....not suspicious at all IMO....

[Garry Puffer]

Patrick C Wrote:"accurately and correctly analyze"

According to who...you Ben...?

Goodness me, this was the murder of a US president.....!

One can only imagine what rules were broken on that day and that weekend ....not suspicious at all IMO....

Not the issue.

This is about the integrity of Dr. Baden. Read the quote again. Anything there that maybe isn't, shall we say, accurate?

[Ben Holmes]

Patrick C Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:accurately and correctly analyze

According to who...you Ben...?

The evidence, Patrick.

I note for the record that you refuse to do so - even though you should be well equipped knowledge-wise to do most of this off the top of your head...

Patrick C Wrote:Goodness me, this was the murder of a US president.....!

One can only imagine what rules were broken on that day and that weekend ....not suspicious at all IMO....

You'll refuse to name the Baden statement you're referring to... my crystal ball has spoken. :lol:

[Ben Holmes]

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Patrick C Wrote:Goodness me, this was the murder of a US president.....!

One can only imagine what rules were broken on that day and that weekend ....not suspicious at all IMO....

You'll refuse to name the Baden statement you're referring to... my crystal ball has spoken. :lol:

Yep... I predicted it, and Patrick has, as predicted, run from answering this.

[Ben Holmes]

John McAdams Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:Dr. Baden, unfortunately, knows very little about this case. I invite knowledgeable people to critique this paragraph by Dr. Baden:

“The [autopsy] photographer was there, the corpsman who usually took pictures of damaged hearts and cirrhotic livers and other diseases. He was snapping away when he caught the attention of an FBI agent, who came up to him and asked for his clearance. ‘Clearance?’ said the corpsman. ‘This is my job.’ The agent took away his camera, exposed all the film, and threw him out. (The exposed film is in the archive.) ‘We’ve got our own man taking pictures,’ the FBI agent said. The FBI photographer, who had clearance, was in the same quandary as Humes. He had never taken autopsy pictures before and was untrained in photographing gunshot wounds. The photographs of the body’s interior were out of focus … Before the President was buried, no one, either in Dallas or Washington, looked at both sides of the body, front and back, and realized that a bullet had entered the back and exited the throat … ” – Michael Baden “Unnatural Death – Confessions of a Medical Examiner”, pg. 10-11

Now, although I’ve never been able to get a WCR Supporter to admit it, VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE IN THE ABOVE QUOTE IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

One sentence is an absolute lie.

Can anyone name the true statement… or the lie?

I don’t see any lies.

I don’t see any true statements either.

Baden was not there at the autopsy.

You don’t see any lies? Then simply produce ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that anyone … ANYONE… ever saw any internal chest photographs.

But you won’t.

You can’t.

That is an absolute LIE on Dr. Baden’s part.

The only true statement is “The exposed film is in the archive.” – no need to cite for that statement, since the information is contained on YOUR WEBSITE.

But it is good to see a WCR Supporter actually admit that Dr. Baden is stating factually incorrect statements.

That’s quite rare… most believers refuse to address the issue. The truth & facts on this topic are only coming from the side of the critics...

NOT ONE SINGLE BELIEVER HAS CORRECTLY ADDRESSED THESE CLAIMS OF DR. BADEN.

Not one...

[Mark Ulrik]

Ben Holmes Wrote:

John McAdams Wrote:Now, although I’ve never been able to get a WCR Supporter to admit it, VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE IN THE ABOVE QUOTE IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

One sentence is an absolute lie.

Can anyone name the true statement… or the lie?

I don’t see any lies.

How unusual. Prof. McAdams accusing Dr. Baden of lying, and Ben disagreeing. Or has Ben simply messed up his quotes again?

[Ben Holmes]

John McAdams Wrote:You don’t seem to understand this.

If Baden had simply stuck with what he told the HSCA, and what the HSCA FPP concluded, that would have been perfectly consistent with LHO as the lone shooter.

So why should he change his story to convict Oswald?

You buffs are so addicted to calling everybody you disagree with “liar” that you can’t admit that sometimes people just make mistakes.

Did you not notice that nothing the the paragraph quoted above is something of which Baden had first hand knowledge?

And nothing in it has anything to do with the natures of the wounds?

You have fallen into the trap typical of buffs here. You are keen to shout “liar, liar!” at people who disagree with you.

John claims that "Did you not notice that nothing the the paragraph quoted above is something of which Baden had first hand knowledge?" - yet this is obviously a lie on John's part... Dr. Baden clearly wrote: "The photographs of the body’s interior were out of focus"

As the head of the HSCA's medical panel - IT'S SIMPLY NOT CONCEIVABLE THAT HE WAS NOT AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO VIEW ALL THE AUTOPSY PHOTOGRAPHS.

John McAdams is quite clearly lying.

But... just for the sake of debate, let's allow his statement ... let's pretend that Dr. Baden was wrong about virtually everything he wrote in that paragraph - FOR THE REASON THAT HE HAD NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE.

That lack of "first hand knowledge" applies to every single member of the HSCA, every single member of the Clark Panel, and yes, every single member of the Warren Commission.

NONE of whom had "first hand knowledge" of the crime.

So John's argument is silly on the face of it. (as well as being a lie).

No wonder John McAdams fears debate in an open forum...

[Ben Holmes]

Dale Hayes Wrote:Does MM REALLY expect sane readers to prefer HIS ignorant opinion over the findings of Dr. Baden? Has he sunk that low? I think he has. MM, you have taken leave of your senses and lost touch with reality. To make it worse, you are as obnoxious as hell. The irony is almost impossible to believe: I am labeled gullible and arrogant while this foolish idiot pronounces his unqualified, utterly amateurish opinions to be superior to Dr. Baden's. If MM is married, I feel sorry for his poor wife.

Don't know about "MM" - but my opinion is clearly superior to Dr. Baden. I have the advantage of being able to quickly locate the citations that prove each of his statements to be false or outright lies.

Here it is again:

Dr. Baden Wrote:The [autopsy] photographer was there, the corpsman who usually took pictures of damaged hearts and cirrhotic livers and other diseases. He was snapping away when he caught the attention of an FBI agent, who came up to him and asked for his clearance. ‘Clearance?’ said the corpsman. ‘This is my job.’ The agent took away his camera, exposed all the film, and threw him out. (The exposed film is in the archive.) ‘We’ve got our own man taking pictures,’ the FBI agent said. The FBI photographer, who had clearance, was in the same quandary as Humes. He had never taken autopsy pictures before and was untrained in photographing gunshot wounds. The photographs of the body’s interior were out of focus … Before the President was buried, no one, either in Dallas or Washington, looked at both sides of the body, front and back, and realized that a bullet had entered the back and exited the throat …

John McAdams has recently admitted that every statement quoted there is untrue...

[Ben Holmes]

John McAdams Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:You cannot ‘misremember’ and describe what it’s never been possible for you to have seen.

Nonsense. False memories are quite common.

But in Baden’s case, he was not there at the autopsy, so it’s not a “memory” issue. It’s a “use of sources” issue.

Once again, John shows a rather appalling lack of understanding.

NO-ONE, absolutely no-one… at the autopsy saw the interior chest photos. Indeed, no-one at the autopsy SAW ANY PHOTOS WHATSOEVER.

So John is being quite silly to suggest that if only Dr. Baden had been at the autopsy, he’d have correctly remembered a non-existent photo.

Nor is it a “use of sources” issue… Dr. Baden ABSOLUTELY AND INDISPUTABLY saw each and every one of the existing autopsy photographs.

HE’S SPEAKING FROM ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY.

And he lied. Because there’s no such photo. It’s really just that simple.

John *STILL* cannot offer a credible scenario for Dr. Baden to be “remembering” not only a non-existent photo, but able to “describe” that it was out of focus.