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(12-30-2016, 02:52 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote: What looks odd to me is the images in background appear to be a bit larger than they should be. After watching a few synchronizations with the Nix and Muchmore Films, I haven't been able to spot any blatant discrepencies.
I think one should realize when watching the apparent near-constant speed of the Limo that Zapruders line-of sight was nearly orthogonal to to direction of the Limo when it slowed down.
Think about this.
This means that at the time the Limo was travelling at it's slowest speed, the perspective of Zapruder would naturally show the Limo passing at the fastest rate. This issue of perspective would greatly mitigate the apparent deceleration of the Limo.
(12-30-2016, 02:52 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote: We know that it slowed down, but were frames removed from the Zapruder Film to hide this?
Maybe so; maybe not.
Quote:I would state that from this viewpoint, Zapruder would have the most accurate perspective of the limo's speed.
Quote:It cannot "mitigate" a slowdownNot my choice of words. This is a ridiculous way to frame my post.
Quote:...it can only make it most visible.More visible than what?
Quote:...and there's nothing in such a perspective that would disguise the speed of the limo.Yes there is, but an odd choice of words.
Quote:If you have a point, you're more than welcome to make it.I have, and didn't expect it to be greeted by your condescending bullshit.
(12-31-2016, 01:38 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote: I've made it Ben.
It has to do with linking angular velocity with the Limo's true velocity. If you want to know if the Zapruder Film has been altered, it would be nice to know the actual speed of the limo as a function of time.
This is doable, and you could compare this with the Nix Film. All you need is a horizontally-stabilized version and a few geometric measurements of Dealy Plaza. You would also need the film's reel speed. You said:
Quote:I would state that from this viewpoint, Zapruder would have the most accurate perspective of the limo's speed.
No. A helicopter view from above would be more accurate.
(12-31-2016, 01:38 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Quote:It cannot "mitigate" a slowdown
Not my choice of words. This is a ridiculous way to frame my post.
(12-31-2016, 01:38 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Quote:...it can only make it most visible.
More visible than what?
(12-31-2016, 01:38 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Quote:...and there's nothing in such a perspective that would disguise the speed of the limo.
Yes there is, but an odd choice of words.
(12-31-2016, 01:38 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Quote:If you have a point, you're more than welcome to make it.
I have, and didn't expect it to be greeted by your condescending bullshit.
(12-31-2016, 01:38 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote: Again: The Limo appeared to be travelling the slowest at the point where it should have been appearing to be travelling the fastest (assuming constant speed); orthogonal to Zapruder's line-of-sight.
(12-31-2016, 01:38 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote: You might expect that the Limo actually slowed-down more than that percieved by the viewer.
If you think that humans have some infallable speed-sensing abilities, take a look at this paper: Apparent Speed of Sampled Motion
Percieved speed is relative to the observer. The Limo's true speed is what really matters. Percieved speed can change as the angle and distance changes between the object and the observer.
Quote:The measurement of speed at a single point... a point within the limo - would of course be the most accurate - as at that point - you can measure the distance traveled, and the time it takes to travel it. Which is, of course, the definition of velocity.No. That is the definition of speed. The speedometer does not measure velocity.
Quote:What you're attempting to show is that the camera cannot show what people have seen.Where did I say that?
(12-31-2016, 11:33 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Quote:The measurement of speed at a single point... a point within the limo - would of course be the most accurate - as at that point - you can measure the distance traveled, and the time it takes to travel it. Which is, of course, the definition of velocity.
No. That is the definition of speed. The speedometer does not measure velocity.
(12-31-2016, 11:33 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Quote:What you're attempting to show is that the camera cannot show what people have seen.Where did I say that?
Where?
Quote:This means that at the time the Limo was travelling at it's slowest speed, the perspective of Zapruder would naturally show the Limo passing at the fastest rate. This issue of perspective would greatly mitigate the apparent deceleration of the Limo.
...
So what I am getting at is that the apparent increase in speed as the limo approaches Zapruder partially mitigates the real decrease in speed. In other words: the Limo slowed down, but from Zapruder's perspective, it did not appear to slow down as much as it really had.
(12-31-2016, 11:33 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote: Why do you misframe my posts? It is becuase you were too lazy to comprehend what I had written?
(12-31-2016, 11:33 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote: Again: An object travelling at a constant velocity in a straight line will may appear at slightly different speeds depending on the distance of the observer and the angle.
(12-31-2016, 11:33 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote: Have you ever seen a train passing Ben?
(12-31-2016, 11:33 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote: I am not saying that the Film was altered or not; I am merely stating something fundamental; the relationship between angular speed, distance, and linear speed at certain points-of-view.
Fendlesworth Wrote:What looks odd to me is the images in background appear to be a bit larger than they should be. After watching a few synchronizations with the Nix and Muchmore Films, I haven't been able to spot any blatant discrepencies.
(12-31-2016, 11:33 PM)Fendlesworth Wrote: And Ben, since when did you speak for most people?
(01-01-2017, 12:40 AM)Ben Holmes Wrote:
Quote:You tried to explain why there's no apparent slowdown in the Zapruder film.No I didn't. Go back and read what I had written. I clearly state that the Limo slowed down, and probably slowed down more that what the average viewer may percieve.
Quote:This fact simply cannot explain the lack of a slowdown being seen in the extant Zapruder film. It's much like arguing that the limo was heavier due to it's speed, and while precisely true, means absolutely nothing.I'm sorry Ben, I just don't know how to respond to this. This comment is just silly.
Ditto with your "explanation" of why the limo's speed wasn't visible in the Zapruder film.
Quote:...where you raise the suspicion of alteration, then spend the rest of the post refuting it.Um, no. I am not refuting that. I am just merely pointing out the slight speed distortion evident in the changing angle. This is something to consider. The Zapruder Film could be altered, or this could be just another disinformation rabbit-hole like Badgeman.
Quote:Have you ever filmed a passing train within a span of a few hundred feet, and noted that it's speed wasn't consistent with what was seen with the naked eye?No I havent. But looking that the train traveling at a constant speed, the apparent speed can change. Would you not agreee that the train appears to be travelling faster when it is two feet away at 0 degrees that when it is 600 ft away at 60 degrees?
Quote:I don't. Nor have I stated that I did... yet you imply that I have... why is that?You said "most people would agree you", or that "most people would agree that I haven't made a point" or some arrogantly disparaging crap like that a few posts ago.
(01-01-2017, 02:55 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:(01-01-2017, 12:40 AM)Ben Holmes Wrote: You tried to explain why there's no apparent slowdown in the Zapruder film.
No I didn't. Go back and read what I had written. I clearly state that the Limo slowed down, and probably slowed down more that what the average viewer may percieve.
(01-01-2017, 02:55 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Ben Holmes Wrote:This fact simply cannot explain the lack of a slowdown being seen in the extant Zapruder film. It's much like arguing that the limo was heavier due to it's speed, and while precisely true, means absolutely nothing.
Ditto with your "explanation" of why the limo's speed wasn't visible in the Zapruder film.
I'm sorry Ben, I just don't know how to respond to this. This comment is just silly.
There is slowdown evident in the Zapruer film Ben, and your analogy is not accurate at all.
(01-01-2017, 02:55 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Ben Holmes Wrote:...where you raise the suspicion of alteration, then spend the rest of the post refuting it.
Um, no. I am not refuting that. I am just merely pointing out the slight speed distortion evident in the changing angle. This is something to consider. The Zapruder Film could be altered, or this could be just another disinformation rabbit-hole like Badgeman.
The fact that it can be synchronized with the Nix and Muchmore Films makes one wonder if frames were removed at all, or that all three Films were altered. These both should be considered in my opinion.
One could easily turn the speeds into real numbers and graphs and compare them.
(01-01-2017, 02:55 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Ben Holmes Wrote:Have you ever filmed a passing train within a span of a few hundred feet, and noted that it's speed wasn't consistent with what was seen with the naked eye?
No I havent. But looking that the train traveling at a constant speed, the apparent speed can change. Would you not agreee that the train appears to be travelling faster when it is two feet away at 0 degrees that when it is 600 ft away at 60 degrees?
It's not that the Zaparuder Film shows less speed, it is that the Zapruder film has an apparent speed differential because of the perspective, and when the maximum apparent speed was supposed to be at the maximum (orthogonal), the Limo was actually at it's lowest true speed.
If you don't want to understand this and keep misframing my posts in the most ridiculous fashion, than whatever.
(01-01-2017, 02:55 AM)Fendlesworth Wrote:Ben Holmes Wrote:I don't. Nor have I stated that I did... yet you imply that I have... why is that?
You said "most people would agree you", or that "most people would agree that I haven't made a point" or some arrogantly disparaging crap like that a few posts ago.
You confidently asserted what most people would think about my post.