[Patrick C]

"Not the point. This thread deals with LN factoids. Perhaps you would not claim LHO was the only employee not to return to work, but your brethren commonly return to this claim, and this is the point being made."

Please stick to the point of the thread.

There is no perhaps about it, Oswald was by no means the only person to leave work that afternoon after the shots. We have them listed here.

That some pro lone gunman supporters get this wrong is no different to the many things that pro conspiracy people get wrong. For example the author who claimed the trees blocked the view of JFK down ALL of Elm St.......and he was published....last year (I can't recall off the top of my head, but I reviewed the book and stated I thought it was an honest mistake).

You tube is full of people who post absolute untruths as I am sure you know.....mainly pro C supporters, like... most people thought there 4 or more shots (not true), like nearly everyone said a shot game from the Knoll (not true).....and so on. The JFK case is riddled by ill informed arm chair followers who get their facts wrong.

This forum is clearly not, but we are not as Ben seems to think (of myself anyway), perfect recycling fact machines who if something is in error, it is a lie.

[Ben Holmes]

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

David Healy Wrote:It's clear, LHO was not the only one missing from the "roll call"

Well, yeah, but there is a difference, isn't there? The others left the building before the shooting. LHO was inside at the time of the shooting and left soon afterwards to go to the movies. Apparently, the real drama of a presidential assassination attempt right under his nose wasn't exciting enough for him.

This is a lie. Mark - you're lying. I've cited the people, and indeed, some of them left before the assassination (Jack Cason, for example), but many are exactly like Oswald - they were there, then left AFTER the assassination. (Charles Givens, Carolyn Arnold, to name just two...)

And since no-one had a detailed synopsis of what time someone left - the only fact that anyone knew was whether someone was there or not. So even if you weren't lying about Oswald being the only one who left after the assassination, it's completely meaningless.

You cannot tell lies in a forum with knowledgeable critics and get away with it.

If you cannot cite for a statement - perhaps you should reconsider making it.

[Garry Puffer]

Patrick C Wrote:"Not the point. This thread deals with LN factoids. Perhaps you would not claim LHO was the only employee not to return to work, but your brethren commonly return to this claim, and this is the point being made."

Please stick to the point of the thread.

There is no perhaps about it, Oswald was by no means the only person to leave work that afternoon after the shots. We have them listed here.

That some pro lone gunman supporters get this wrong is no different to the many things that pro conspiracy people get wrong. For example the author who claimed the trees blocked the view of JFK down ALL of Elm St.......and he was published....last year (I can't recall off the top of my head, but I reviewed the book and stated I thought it was an honest mistake).

You tube is full of people who post absolute untruths as I am sure you know.....mainly pro C supporters, like... most people thought there 4 or more shots (not true), like nearly everyone said a shot game from the Knoll (not true).....and so on. The JFK case is riddled by ill informed arm chair followers who get their facts wrong.

This forum is clearly not, but we are not as Ben seems to think (of myself anyway), perfect recycling fact machines who if something is in error, it is a lie.

Please start a thread called "CT Factoids" to discuss those. However, you can't use something that one author wrote and call it a factoid. To be a factoid it must be something commonly repeated but false.

This thread is about LN factoids. If we list a factoid and you want to argue that the factoid is true, fine, but don't bring up the idea that there are factoids on the CT side. No one here would dispute that and it simply does not belong in this thread.

[Mark Ulrik]

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

David Healy Wrote:It's clear, LHO was not the only one missing from the "roll call"

Well, yeah, but there is a difference, isn't there? The others left the building before the shooting. LHO was inside at the time of the shooting and left soon afterwards to go to the movies. Apparently, the real drama of a presidential assassination attempt right under his nose wasn't exciting enough for him.

This is a lie. Mark - you're lying. I've cited the people, and indeed, some of them left before the assassination (Jack Cason, for example), but many are exactly like Oswald - they were there, then left AFTER the assassination. (Charles Givens, Carolyn Arnold, to name just two...)

And since no-one had a detailed synopsis of what time someone left - the only fact that anyone knew was whether someone was there or not. So even if you weren't lying about Oswald being the only one who left after the assassination, it's completely meaningless.

You cannot tell lies in a forum with knowledgeable critics and get away with it.

If you cannot cite for a statement - perhaps you should reconsider making it.

You need to get your facts straight, Ben. Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold both left the building before the shooting.

"When President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing at the corner of Record and Elm Streets. [...] After the President was shot, I returned to the Texas School Depository Building, and was told by a Dallas policeman that I could not enter the building." (Charles Givens, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CE 1381, p. 36)

"I left the Texas School Book Depository Building at about 12:25 PM, November 22, 1963, and never returned to this building on that date." (Carolyn Arnold, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CD 706, p. 7)

[Ben Holmes]

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:Well, yeah, but there is a difference, isn't there? The others left the building before the shooting. LHO was inside at the time of the shooting and left soon afterwards to go to the movies. Apparently, the real drama of a presidential assassination attempt right under his nose wasn't exciting enough for him.

This is a lie. Mark - you're lying. I've cited the people, and indeed, some of them left before the assassination (Jack Cason, for example), but many are exactly like Oswald - they were there, then left AFTER the assassination. (Charles Givens, Carolyn Arnold, to name just two...)

And since no-one had a detailed synopsis of what time someone left - the only fact that anyone knew was whether someone was there or not. So even if you weren't lying about Oswald being the only one who left after the assassination, it's completely meaningless.

You cannot tell lies in a forum with knowledgeable critics and get away with it.

If you cannot cite for a statement - perhaps you should reconsider making it.

You need to get your facts straight, Ben. Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold both left the building before the shooting.

"When President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing at the corner of Record and Elm Streets. [...] After the President was shot, I returned to the Texas School Depository Building, and was told by a Dallas policeman that I could not enter the building." (Charles Givens, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CE 1381, p. 36)

"I left the Texas School Book Depository Building at about 12:25 PM, November 22, 1963, and never returned to this building on that date." (Carolyn Arnold, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CD 706, p. 7)

Ah, but I do have my facts straight. I listed two out of many TSBD employees who were there in the morning, and gone in the afternoon.

The fact that you were unable to address what I stated will show everyone where the truth lies.

There was NO roll call... and if such had ever really occurred, there were too many people missing to be able to pinpoint Oswald. That's a fact. One that believers are loathe to publicly acknowledge

[Mark Ulrik]

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:This is a lie. Mark - you're lying. I've cited the people, and indeed, some of them left before the assassination (Jack Cason, for example), but many are exactly like Oswald - they were there, then left AFTER the assassination. (Charles Givens, Carolyn Arnold, to name just two...)

And since no-one had a detailed synopsis of what time someone left - the only fact that anyone knew was whether someone was there or not. So even if you weren't lying about Oswald being the only one who left after the assassination, it's completely meaningless.

You cannot tell lies in a forum with knowledgeable critics and get away with it.

If you cannot cite for a statement - perhaps you should reconsider making it.

You need to get your facts straight, Ben. Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold both left the building before the shooting.

"When President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing at the corner of Record and Elm Streets. [...] After the President was shot, I returned to the Texas School Depository Building, and was told by a Dallas policeman that I could not enter the building." (Charles Givens, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CE 1381, p. 36)

"I left the Texas School Book Depository Building at about 12:25 PM, November 22, 1963, and never returned to this building on that date." (Carolyn Arnold, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CD 706, p. 7)

Ah, but I do have my facts straight. I listed two out of many TSBD employees who were there in the morning, and gone in the afternoon.

The fact that you were unable to address what I stated will show everyone where the truth lies.

There was NO roll call... and if such had ever really occurred, there were too many people missing to be able to pinpoint Oswald. That's a fact. One that believers are loathe to publicly acknowledge

I pointed out that people like Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold left the building before the shooting.

You then called me a liar and claimed they left after the assassination.

I then demonstrated - with their own words - that they, indeed, left the building before the shooting.

You obviously enjoy calling other people liars, but based on the statements I cited, who is the real liar here?

[Ben Holmes]

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:You need to get your facts straight, Ben. Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold both left the building before the shooting.

"When President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing at the corner of Record and Elm Streets. [...] After the President was shot, I returned to the Texas School Depository Building, and was told by a Dallas policeman that I could not enter the building." (Charles Givens, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CE 1381, p. 36)

"I left the Texas School Book Depository Building at about 12:25 PM, November 22, 1963, and never returned to this building on that date." (Carolyn Arnold, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CD 706, p. 7)

Ah, but I do have my facts straight. I listed two out of many TSBD employees who were there in the morning, and gone in the afternoon.

The fact that you were unable to address what I stated will show everyone where the truth lies.

There was NO roll call... and if such had ever really occurred, there were too many people missing to be able to pinpoint Oswald. That's a fact. One that believers are loathe to publicly acknowledge

I pointed out that people like Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold left the building before the shooting.

You then called me a liar and claimed they left after the assassination.

I then demonstrated - with their own words - that they, indeed, left the building before the shooting.

You obviously enjoy calling other people liars, but based on the statements I cited, who is the real liar here?

The real liar would be the one who claims that Oswald was identified as the only one missing from a mythical roll call of the TSBD employees on Friday afternoon.

I've repeatedly published a list of people who left after the assassination, and never returned to the TSBD.

You cannot deny that fact...

[Mark Ulrik]

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:Ah, but I do have my facts straight. I listed two out of many TSBD employees who were there in the morning, and gone in the afternoon.

The fact that you were unable to address what I stated will show everyone where the truth lies.

There was NO roll call... and if such had ever really occurred, there were too many people missing to be able to pinpoint Oswald. That's a fact. One that believers are loathe to publicly acknowledge

I pointed out that people like Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold left the building before the shooting.

You then called me a liar and claimed they left after the assassination.

I then demonstrated - with their own words - that they, indeed, left the building before the shooting.

You obviously enjoy calling other people liars, but based on the statements I cited, who is the real liar here?

The real liar would be the one who claims that Oswald was identified as the only one missing from a mythical roll call of the TSBD employees on Friday afternoon.

I've repeatedly published a list of people who left after the assassination, and never returned to the TSBD.

You cannot deny that fact...

Pay attention. I never said anything about a roll call. I did, however, point out that people like Givens and Arnold left the building before the shooting (unlike Oswald who left the building after the shooting).

If you honestly think I was wrong, and that Givens and/or Arnold left the building only after the shooting, then you should consider posting some evidence that supports your belief. Can you do that?

Alternatively, it's not too late to admit that you misread my post and apologize for calling me a liar.

[Ben Holmes]

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:I pointed out that people like Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold left the building before the shooting.

You then called me a liar and claimed they left after the assassination.

I then demonstrated - with their own words - that they, indeed, left the building before the shooting.

You obviously enjoy calling other people liars, but based on the statements I cited, who is the real liar here?

The real liar would be the one who claims that Oswald was identified as the only one missing from a mythical roll call of the TSBD employees on Friday afternoon.

I've repeatedly published a list of people who left after the assassination, and never returned to the TSBD.

You cannot deny that fact...

Pay attention. I never said anything about a roll call. I did, however, point out that people like Givens and Arnold left the building before the shooting (unlike Oswald who left the building after the shooting).

If you honestly think I was wrong, and that Givens and/or Arnold left the building only after the shooting, then you should consider posting some evidence that supports your belief. Can you do that?

Alternatively, it's not too late to admit that you misread my post and apologize for calling me a liar.

Yep... it is too late.

You've tried to resurrect that believer factoid... Here's your original post again:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

David Healy Wrote:It's clear, LHO was not the only one missing from the "roll call"

Well, yeah, but there is a difference, isn't there? The others left the building before the shooting. LHO was inside at the time of the shooting and left soon afterwards to go to the movies. Apparently, the real drama of a presidential assassination attempt right under his nose wasn't exciting enough for him.

You can keep denying the truth, and on this forum, the truth can be pointed out without censorship or fear of banning.

Lee Harvey Oswald was not the only missing employee, nor did anyone know when people left. There was no 'roster' of those who left before the assassination, in comparison to those who left after the assassination.

You can run, but you can't hide from people who know the evidence as well or better than yourself.

The 'roll call' is an absolutely un-supportable myth designed to help the frameup of a patsy.

[David Healy]

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Mark Ulrik Wrote:Well, yeah, but there is a difference, isn't there? The others left the building before the shooting. LHO was inside at the time of the shooting and left soon afterwards to go to the movies. Apparently, the real drama of a presidential assassination attempt right under his nose wasn't exciting enough for him.

This is a lie. Mark - you're lying. I've cited the people, and indeed, some of them left before the assassination (Jack Cason, for example), but many are exactly like Oswald - they were there, then left AFTER the assassination. (Charles Givens, Carolyn Arnold, to name just two...)

And since no-one had a detailed synopsis of what time someone left - the only fact that anyone knew was whether someone was there or not. So even if you weren't lying about Oswald being the only one who left after the assassination, it's completely meaningless.

You cannot tell lies in a forum with knowledgeable critics and get away with it.

If you cannot cite for a statement - perhaps you should reconsider making it.

You need to get your facts straight, Ben. Charles Givens and Carolyn Arnold both left the building before the shooting.

"When President John F. Kennedy was shot, I was standing at the corner of Record and Elm Streets. [...] After the President was shot, I returned to the Texas School Depository Building, and was told by a Dallas policeman that I could not enter the building." (Charles Givens, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CE 1381, p. 36)

"I left the Texas School Book Depository Building at about 12:25 PM, November 22, 1963, and never returned to this building on that date." (Carolyn Arnold, 3-18-64 statement to the FBI, CD 706, p. 7)

Denmark, eh? Perhaps Paul May would represent your side of the argument with more panache, experience eh?