[Patrick C]

The idea that all the employees were marched back into the TSBD and there was a "roll call" is pretty silly given that the DPD were all over the building and had sealed it off to the public and most reporters.

Some employees were allowed back to collect belongings as I recall from my trips to Dallas way back in the 80s. Can't cite for that however.

[Lee Abbott]

That's correct, Patrick C. .... I was allowed back to get my package of curtain rods, but they were gone.

[Ben Holmes]

Patrick C Wrote:The idea that all the employees were marched back into the TSBD and there was a "roll call" is pretty silly given that the DPD were all over the building and had sealed it off to the public and most reporters.

Some employees were allowed back to collect belongings as I recall from my trips to Dallas way back in the 80s. Can't cite for that however.

It's good to see one WCR Supporter willing to publicly state that there was no "roll-call" that resulted in a single missing employee.

It's a shame that not all believers can instantly state this for the record.

[Mark Ulrik]

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Patrick C Wrote:The idea that all the employees were marched back into the TSBD and there was a "roll call" is pretty silly given that the DPD were all over the building and had sealed it off to the public and most reporters.

Some employees were allowed back to collect belongings as I recall from my trips to Dallas way back in the 80s. Can't cite for that however.

It's good to see one WCR Supporter willing to publicly state that there was no "roll-call" that resulted in a single missing employee.

It's a shame that not all believers can instantly state this for the record.

Why? It's not our claim that LHO was the only employee absent. Where have you read he was? The WCR? Posner? Bugliosi? You refused to answer when I asked previosuly.

[Ben Holmes]

Mark Ulrik Wrote:

Ben Holmes Wrote:

Patrick C Wrote:The idea that all the employees were marched back into the TSBD and there was a "roll call" is pretty silly given that the DPD were all over the building and had sealed it off to the public and most reporters.

Some employees were allowed back to collect belongings as I recall from my trips to Dallas way back in the 80s. Can't cite for that however.

It's good to see one WCR Supporter willing to publicly state that there was no "roll-call" that resulted in a single missing employee.

It's a shame that not all believers can instantly state this for the record.

Why? It's not our claim that LHO was the only employee absent. Where have you read he was? The WCR? Posner? Bugliosi? You refused to answer when I asked previosuly.

I'm always amused at believers who blatantly deny a well-known fact.

And unless YOU are willing to publicly denounce the Warren Commission Report - it is your claim.

From the Warren Commission Report: "When Hill asked why Oswald was wanted, Fritz replied, "Well, he was employed down at the Book Depository and he had not been present for a roll call of the employees."

And other believers, of course, constantly support and cite this factoid... for example:

Dale Hayes Wrote:Dallas Morning News reporter, Kent Biffle, who was inside the TSBD, wrote in his journal that day "I listened as the building Superintendent told detectives about Lee Oswald failing to show up at a roll call. My impression is that there was an earlier roll call that had been INCONCLUSIVE because several employees were missing. This time, however, ALL were accounted for but Oswald"

R. Anderson Wrote:They did roll call at work and Oswald wasn't there.

Gerald Posner Wrote:...every one of the Texas School Book Depository's employees on the first floor. The only one missing was Lee Oswald. (Case Closed, pg 272)

Vincent Bugliosi Wrote:16. After the shooting in Dealey Plaza, nearly all of the sixteen warehousemen who worked in the Depository Building returned to the building and were present at a roll call of employees. Only Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Givens were not present; Givens was located shortly thereafter.49 So only Oswald left the building and was unaccounted for. Dallas Morning News reporter Kent Biffle, who was inside the Depository Building, wrote in his journal that day, “I listened as the building superintendent [Roy Truly] told detectives about Lee Oswald failing to show up at a roll call. My impression is that there was an earlier roll call that had been inconclusive because several employees were missing. This time, however, all were accounted for but Oswald.”

I can continue, as there are many more references by believers to this mythical roll-call.

Your attempt to deny that this is a factoid of believers is nothing less than a blatant lie on your part.

Now, would you like to make up for your lie and publicly state that there was no TSBD roll-call where Oswald was the only missing employee?

[Patrick C]

Ben,

People who support the WC conclusion are not beyond criticism. Neither are they necessarily well informed.

I do not lump all the pro LN folks in the same bucket, neither the pro C supporters.

I have always had reservations that we know the truth, but as the facts stand, IMO Oswald shot JFK alone.

It is bemusing to me that it seems NONE of you pro C stalwarts have ever stated, "well maybe Oswald did shoot JFK.....alone." You cannot entertain the possibility!

It was gratifying to me some years ago on a long discussion with Martin Hay, friend and foe on JFK when he said to me - "maybe Oswald did shoot JFK ...alone, I just don't think he did"

I think if you guys were a little more "open" ....discussion might be more interesting. Otherwise it seems here, like on Amazon it will be just groundhog day, beating ones head against a brick wall, never budging an inch.

YOUR views on the shooting - as in timings and accuracy for example ASTONISH me.....as an ex marine that you think Oswald could NOT have got off two shots in 5 to 6 seconds at those distances and got lucky....beggars belief. Truly.

[Nick Principe]

It is bemusing to me that you don't believe in Santa Claus, Patrick. Truly. Not that one HAS to believe in Santa Claus, but you cannot even entertain the possibility! Look in the 6th floor parlour on Christmas Day (if you live on the sixth floor). The cookies are eaten. The milk is drunk. There are presents in the stockings. This is all hard evidence that he was there. Millions of eyewitnesses can attest to his existence. I think if you were a little more "open" to the idea, the discussion might be more interesting.

Or perhaps over the years you've come to examine all the hard evidence of his existence, and encountered problem after problem after problem with the legitimacy of that evidence. Like how can Santa be in one place at 1:15 a.m. when he was miles away just a few minutes prior? How does Santa run up and down the staircases of these houses without ever being seen and ever being out of breath? And of course, despite the "official" story, we KNOW he can't fit down a chimney.

Again, I think if you were a little more "open" and stepped back to analyze the hard evidence in any serious way, rather than from the perspective of, "It's possible, and that's all I care about" - [P. Collins, Aug. 31, 2015] then you might come to understand it is a fruitless endeavor to try and shoehorn the possibility of Santa's existence, into a place where the evidence just does not fit.

It was gratifying to me when the mother from Miracle on 34th Street said "maybe there is a Santa Clause...I just don't think there is." Yet so many people believe it to be so, and it just beggars belief. Truly.

[Garry Puffer]

Patrick C Wrote:It is bemusing to me that it seems NONE of you pro C stalwarts have ever stated, "well maybe Oswald did shoot JFK.....alone." You cannot entertain the possibility!

You kept saying that to me over on Amazon too, Patrick. Never mind that I explained THREE TIMES to you that I had gone over to the LN side twice, once after reading Alfred Newman and again as recently as Posner. You continued the same jabber-jabber at me as if I'd said nothing.

The problem with Newman and Posner is partly what they leave out, and with the wider view provided by what they leave out, their conclusions cannot be maintained.

So please at least give consideration to my tale, and stop claiming that none of us ever considered a Lone Nut conclusion.

By the time Bugliosi rolled out his cinder block I could no longer be fooled by the tricks that had convinced me earlier. And tricks they are.

And shame on you that you can still recommend the book of a plagiarist who made up interviews for his book. Case Closed should be anathema even to you.

[Patrick C]

My photographic memory failed me Garry on that you had once been a pro lone gunman supporter....

Did I recommend Posner....? I typically avoid recommending VB and Postner and suggest Peter Knight, Mike Majerus, Stephen White, Mel Ayton and Albert Newman...oh yes and Jean Davison of course.

[Ben Holmes]

Patrick C Wrote:Did I recommend Posner....? I typically avoid recommending VB and Postner and suggest Peter Knight, Mike Majerus, Stephen White, Mel Ayton and Albert Newman...oh yes and Jean Davison of course.

It's unfortunate that once having recommended a book, you absolutely refuse to defend it against critical analysis.

I recommend 'Rush to Judgment' by Mark Lane - and have easily answered all critiques against it.

My favorite was when Henry Sienzant posted the photo that undercut his argument, and supported Mark Lane. Here it is again: