[Ben Holmes]

Here's another factoid often repeated by believers:

Patrick C Wrote:How do you explain the fact that Zapruder said he stopped filming to conserve film so he waited for the limo to appear....or is that something you had not thought of.....

Patrick will not, of course; cite anyplace where Zapruder said this... he can't - it's a lie.

[Patrick C]

He may have said he was worried about running out of "power" from the winding mechanism.....I will check with Mike Majerus.

It is possible I am mistaken of course that he said why he stopped filming.

I do tire of being called a liar Holmes. I am not. You however are full of poorly reasoned arguments and hot air. You still do not understand the difference between an opinion or a mistake and a lie. Odd really.

[Ray Mitcham]

Patrick, you said "How do you explain the fact that Zapruder said he stopped filming to conserve film so he waited for the limo to appear....or is that something you had not thought of....."

You made a statement of fact "Zapruder said he stopped filming".

You can't substantiate this. You then go on to say "He may have said he was worried about running out of "power" from the winding mechanism.....I will check with Mike Majors."

If you don't wish to be called a liar, then stop posting factoids.

[Patrick C]

Clearly you have an English comprehension problem. I wrote Zapruder had said he stopped filming over a concern over running out of film which is what I thought for many years. I then discovered that actually he was more concerned about the winding mechanism. Where that comes from I cannot recall. I have studied the assassination academically and on occasions professionally, but I do not have a photographic memory, nor am I in a court of law. I am on an amateur forum with , largely speaking, people who have crackpot ideas about Dallas and seem to expect a water tight response to every post that shows disagreement with them!

Well that is not going to happen as I simply don't care to spend that time researching for you - and your co fairy tale believes , but I am NOT a liar Mr Mitcham. I suggest you take up some English comprehension classes - it is never too late to learn.


Holmes sated I could not essentially cite for that and I said I would check with Mike Majerus who I think will know. I also stated I could be mistaken.

That is NOT lie. It would seem however to be ignorance on your part Ray. But then again I suppose I do have the advantage of a very fine education which helps me engage in debate in a sensible manner in my first language - English.

[Ben Holmes]

Patrick C Wrote:He may have said he was worried about running out of "power" from the winding mechanism.....I will check with Mike Majerus.

It is possible I am mistaken of course that he said why he stopped filming.

I do tire of being called a liar Holmes. I am not. You however are full of poorly reasoned arguments and hot air. You still do not understand the difference between an opinion or a mistake and a lie. Odd really.

Then you should simply stop lying.

I wouldn't be able to call you a liar then.

Indeed, I challenge you to produce EVEN ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE where I labeled you a liar, and it turned out you were telling the truth...

A very easy way to avoid being labeled a liar is to stop relying on your opinion and faith, and start relying on the actual evidence. If you have a prepared citation ready to go where Zapruder said anything like what you claimed, then that would shut me right up, wouldn't it?

Now, you keep claiming you're not a liar, YET YOU'VE NEVER DEFENDED A SINGLE STATEMENT THAT I'VE POINTED OUT WAS A LIE. (or if you have, I certainly don't remember it...)

Why is that, Patrick?

[Ben Holmes]

Patrick C Wrote:Clearly you have an English comprehension problem. I wrote Zapruder had said he stopped filming over a concern over running out of film which is what I thought for many years. I then discovered that actually he was more concerned about the winding mechanism. Where that comes from I cannot recall. I have studied the assassination academically and on occasions professionally, but I do not have a photographic memory, nor am I in a court of law. I am on an amateur forum with , largely speaking, people who have crackpot ideas about Dallas and seem to expect a water tight response to every post that shows disagreement with them!

No Patrick, you're simply lying again.

One lie pointed out, you move smoothly to another lie.

Zapruder made it quite clear in his EARLIEST TESTIMONY that he intended to get the Presidential limo as it turned from Houston Street:

Quote:Mr. LIEBELER - As you stood there on this abutment with your camera, the motorcade came down Houston Street and turned left on Elm Street, did it not?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER - And it proceeded then down Elm Street toward the triple underpass; is that correct?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's correct. I started shooting--when the motorcade started coming in, I believe I started and wanted to get it coming in from Houston Street.

Now, I've cited the proof that you've been lying all along...

The VERY BEST you could have done is produce a statement from many years later that contradicts his earliest statements... but you can't even do that.

You just continue to try to push a factoid that you KNOW YOU CANNOT SUPPORT WITH A CITATION.

That's not an "opinion" - that's a lie.

Patrick C Wrote:Well that is not going to happen as I simply don't care to spend that time researching for you - and your co fairy tale believes , but I am NOT a liar Mr Mitcham. I suggest you take up some English comprehension classes - it is never too late to learn.

You can argue that you're not lying - but the simple fact is - you keep asserting something with no evidence whatsoever - and since you aren't the actual eyewitness - YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE A SOURCE.

But you don't have a source... and you refuse to retract.

So every time you bring it up, I'm simply going to point out that you're lying, Patrick - and despite your claim that this is a "comprehension" problem, it's really quite simple.

Patrick C Wrote:Holmes sated I could not essentially cite for that and I said I would check with Mike Majerus who I think will know. I also stated I could be mistaken.

Until you admit that you were "mistaken" - you're provably lying.

Patrick C Wrote:That is NOT lie. It would seem however to be ignorance on your part Ray. But then again I suppose I do have the advantage of a very fine education which helps me engage in debate in a sensible manner in my first language - English.

Oh it would be soooo nice if critics could follow these rules too!

But critics are required to cite for their claims... and rightfully so.

[Garry Puffer]

Patrick C Wrote:I wrote Zapruder had said he stopped filming over a concern over running out of film which is what I thought for many years. I then discovered that actually he was more concerned about the winding mechanism.

Patrick, this statement is beyond funny. It was a winding mechanism. How could that be of concern? Was he worried that the number of turns had an upper limit or what? Did you even think before you wrote this nonsense? It seems rather unlikely that he would have been concerned about running out of winds (long i). Hilarious.



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[Ben Holmes]

Garry Puffer Wrote:

Patrick C Wrote:I wrote Zapruder had said he stopped filming over a concern over running out of film which is what I thought for many years. I then discovered that actually he was more concerned about the winding mechanism.

Patrick, this statement is beyond funny. It was a winding mechanism. How could that be of concern? Was he worried that the number of turns had an upper limit or what? Did you even think before you wrote this nonsense? It seems rather unlikely that he would have been concerned about running out of winds (long i). Hilarious.

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I actually have several of the cameras, and you wind the spring up when you load the film - the spring will serve to run UNTIL YOU RUN OUT OF FILM.

Indeed, it would be rather silly to design and manufacture a camera where you needed to wind up the spring before you finished filming...

Patrick is lying, of course.

He's been unable to document ANY of these lies about Zapruder. The simple fact is that Zapruder testified that he'd wanted to begin filming as the limo turned from Houston - AND HAD NO EXPLANATION - nor, to be honest, was he asked - why the film didn't start there.

Patrick is quite desperate to provide an explanation that doesn't involve the film being cut & spliced... but then runs from the evidence that it was.

[Ray Mitcham]

Quote:Well that is not going to happen as I simply don't care to spend that time researching for you - and your co fairy tale believes , but I am NOT a liar Mr Mitcham. I suggest you take up some English comprehension classes - it is never too late to learn.

Holmes sated [sic]I could not essentially cite for that and I said I would check with Mike Majerus who I think will know. I also stated I could be mistaken.

It seems it is your comprehension which is lacking, Mr C. Nowhere did I say you were a liar. My actual words were "If you don't wish to be called a liar, then stop posting factoids."

It is normally only good manners for a poster who is corrected on an incorrect statement (or factoid as your hero calls them) to apologise, or admit he was wrong. It seems that you don't have the cajones to do either.

In this case, you stated as a fact, that ""Zapruder said he stopped filming". Nowhere is Zapruder on record of saying anything of the sort. When this was pointed out to you, you immediately changed tack and wrote "He may have said he was worried about running out of "power" from the winding mechanism.....I will check with Mike Majors."

Patrick C Wrote:That is NOT lie. It would seem however to be ignorance on your part Ray. But then again I suppose I do have the advantage of a very fine education which helps me engage in debate in a sensible manner in my first language - English.

Bully for you. It seems, however, that your very fine education didn't stretch to correct punctuation.

[Garry Puffer]

I misunderstood Patrick's comment about the winding mechanism, because I missed the post where he wrote this:

"He may have said he was worried about running out of "power" from the winding mechanism.....I will check with Mike Majerus."

Apologies, Patrick. That statement is much less hilarious, although Ben's reply to my previous post makes your statement kind of impossible.

It is amusing that you LNers constantly accuse critics of just making stuff up, and then you do the same thing yourself. In other words, you might have read this somewhere and simply taken it for true rather than checking. Now at this late date you claim to not even remember where you picked up these nuggets. A few minutes searching the internet would be advisable before making such assertions. You have time enough to make all these posts, so you have time enough to do a little searching.

The question now is, will you admit you were wrong about both things, or will you attempt to get out of it somehow?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, they claimed they told me it was about 2 frames fast--instead of 16 it was 18 frames and they told me it was about 2 frames fast in the speed and they told me that the time between the 2 rapid shots, as I understand, that was determined--the length of time it took to the second one and that they were very fast and they claim it has proven it could be done by 1 man. You know there was indication there were two?
Mr. LIEBELER - Your films were extremely helpful to the work of the Commission, Mr. Zapruder.


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